F-15! Now that's what I'm talking about!

[meltone1]

Has anyone taken a look at the stats for the new F-15? Not only does it have a higher bombardment and ROF than a normal jet fighter, it now has lethal land bombardment AND stealth attack! I'd like to hear someone call this worthless now!

[Hygro]

would you like to relay the new stats for those who dont have conquests?

[kittenOFchaos]

Originally posted by meltone1
Has anyone taken a look at the stats for the new F-15? Not only does it have a higher bombardment and ROF than a normal jet fighter, it now has lethal land bombardment AND stealth attack! I'd like to hear someone call this worthless now!

Oh, it is FAR better.

However, it is still in the Modern Era by which time the game has probably already been decided.

[meltone1]

sure, no prob. What is different from the normal jet fighter is that they have 6 bombard, 0 range, and 2 rate of fire. Normal jet fighters have 3.0.1. Again, F-15's also have lethal land bombardment and lethal sea bombardment, (whereas the jet fighter only has lethal sea bombard.) and stealth capability which means they can target a particular unit in a stack. I can't wait to try it out. After my current game I'm playing as Inca, I think I just might..

[digger760]

What does rate of fire mean?

[Gogf]

How many hit points it can kill in one shot. It is a stealth plane, it does not have stealth attack, meaning it is hard to shoot down, not can target a unit in a stack. Someone at the game gave the stealth bomber (and maybe F-15) stealth attack by default, but it doesn't work.

[meltone1]

How dissapointing. So which units have the ability to choose which unit in a stack to attack then? I've never done it..

[Gogf]

Submarines. In scenarios:

Assasins
Ninjas?

[Bambul]

I underestimated how good stealth attacks were. Sneak up on a stack with a sub (or 2-3 to be sure) and sink the precious cargo - ie. transport/carrier. I did this quite a bit in the WWII scenario (that is, when I didn't have overwhelming air/sea power to just sink the entire stack).

No more using subs purely as well hiden scouts!

[Ivan the Kulak]

Hmm, stealth attack doesn't work for planes? Maybe that is not such a bad thing as far as stealth bombers go. I like the new air bombard system, but I believe in counterbalance here as with everything else. Regular air units can be blasted with Flak and mobile SAMs, but there is no defense (not much anyway) against stealth bombers, and they can just melt down everything. Moving a seaborne invasion force would be a nightmare if stealth attack was enabled here, even if you had a carrier full of jets and 8 battleships in the stack a stealth bomber could just pick off the carrier and then the next attacks could deal effortlessly with the transports.

[digger760]

Air Missions:
In the civilpedia they call it precision strike "Destroys city improvements only" it does say anything about selecting the improvement to destroy. I've never tested it.

Stealth fighters and Bombers:
It says that the are "very diffilcult to intercept by enemy air superiority" so it sounds like to me it is possible just the chances are much less

[meltone1]

This is obviously a bug. It clearly has the stealth planes and the F-15 as having stealth attack in the civopedia and in the editor. Has anyone reported this?

[Black Waltz]

'Steatlh attack' means they are harder to target from the ground - not that they can attack any unit in a stack.

[meltone1]

No, actually steath "ability" means they are harder to target. Stealth attack indeed means they can target enemies in a stack. Refer to the civopedia for the F-15 entry and for other stealth planes, and probably the sub as well. Also, in the editor it lists the particular units that can be targeted for stealth attack. The reason that the sub can target units in a stack is because it has this stealth attack, but for some reason it is not recognized when the planes have that capability.

[Gogf]

No, that's "Stealth." "Stealth Attack" means that they can attack what ever unit in a stack they want. What is a bug is letting these planes have stealth attack. Either some programmer got mixed up (and added it to the epic game), or it is supposed to be able to be used by the planes, and doesn't which is lucky, as it would really over power them. Ivan the Kulak is right, it would just be too powerful.

[Ivan the Kulak]

Yes, stealth planes are good, stealth ATTACK in planes is bad. Even now you really don't dare go sailing about without a carrier full of planes on AS in the stack. Last time I started a big war I forgot about the increased range of bombers now, and the French could just reach my shores with bombers. I lost two battleships the first turn to 7 bombers. I moved in some AEGIS cruisers, but lost one of those too. I thought these were supposed to have good air defense (?). Finally I placed the AEGIS next to a city as bait, and stacked the city full of jets on AS. That did the trick.

[Warspite2]

Originally posted by meltone1
Has anyone taken a look at the stats for the new F-15? Not only does it have a higher bombardment and ROF than a normal jet fighter, it now has lethal land bombardment AND stealth attack! I'd like to hear someone call this worthless now!

Yes those F-15s are much better now. I think even the jet fighters have improved too. Right now the stealth attack on the F-15 don't work. Maybe they decided not to give it stealth attack but just did not change it in the civlopedia.

[Roland Johansen]

Stealth attack for bombers wouldn't be too unbalanced as large stacks of fighters on air superiority have a very high chance to shoot down bombers on a bombing run. Even if these bombers have the stealth ability. (when reading this post note that stealth attack is not the same as stealth ability) I tested this with the editor in debug mode for Civ3 PTW (don't own C3C yet, waiting for the patch). Probably a large stack of units with the Anti Air ability will also be deadly for bombers. Don't attack with one aegis cruiser. Attack with 10 or more and watch the bombers die.

[Ivan the Kulak]

If they got stealth attack in planes working, it would have to be seen if any anti-air capability in the stack was taken into account - that would be my main concern. This might make things a bit too easy for the player also - a stack of stealth bombers could be used to take out a carrier and ignore the AEGIS and jets in the stack - easy kill, too easy.

I've done a bit of testing and it looks like stacking lots of AA units in a city has a good effect. Problem is, the AI will not stack them in numbers needed to be effective, though I've seen them building the units.

I wish they had created air defense so it could have a radius outside the unit tile. An AA screen of AEGIS cruisers capable of damaging enemy bombers 1-2 tiles away would be very useful.

[Louis XXIV]

What's the cost of an F-15?

What's the cost of a bomber?