Got any favorite Great Wonders?!?

whatever_du · Jan 03, 2004, 03:25 AM

Well, just to know about that, to see if I'm normal ... :P
Of course you have to get the Pyramid, The Sun Tsu is also a must but since i'M building Knight to eventualy upgrades to Sipahi to take over the world, and I like not to care of building defense units to protect my new cities, The Leonardo WorkShop is a Must to upgrade Units for cheap!
So my choice in Orders-
1-Pyramid
2-Leonardo Workshop
3-Sun Tsu Art's of War

What do you think ?!? !

royb · Jan 03, 2004, 03:30 AM

Welcome!

Definitly pyramids.
But yesterday I read a strategy article on how if you play on lower levels (I only play on Warlord) you should avoid building wonders. What level do you play on?

Edit - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=71238
Here's the article

whatever_du · Jan 03, 2004, 03:42 AM

i'm playing warlord or regent... when I get Upset about not dominating on regent, I drop back to warlord...
But I don't get why we should avoid wonders on a lower level ?!?!

royb · Jan 03, 2004, 03:51 AM

Go to the link in my first post.
Not building wonders will let you build more units or improvements. Just let the AI build the wonder for you and tak it from them.

whatever_du · Jan 03, 2004, 03:59 AM

interesting... thinking avout all the setlers and spearman who could be used to expand early instead of jumping on the pyramids..

SirPleb · Jan 03, 2004, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by whatever_du
i'm playing warlord or regent... when I get Upset about not dominating on regent, I drop back to warlord... But I don't get why we should avoid wonders on a lower level ?!?!

Actually, the answer to your question is already there!

Some of us think that if you feel that some wonders are essential (Great Library and Pyramids are common candidates for this belief) to regularly win at "easy" levels (Monarch or earlier), then you will find that once you've learned to win without those "essential" wonders, you'll also have learned to consistently win at a higher difficulty level.

It sounds like you are ready to try this philosophy and to discover whether it works for you. If you are, please let us know the results on the thread previously mentioned. More converts are of course always welcome! Dissidents are another matter of course

But I think that if there is a disagreement (hasn't been one so far on practical experience) the active members of "WAA" would consider and try to understand it with as open minds as you could ask for...

Commander Bello · Jan 03, 2004, 04:34 AM

As I have stated in that thread, I think the advise given there is just as extreme as what should be prevented by following it. For that, I cannot consider it being really helpful, either.

There are for sure some very helpful wonders, which are worth to race for them. What they are, depends on the game settings, so there isn't THE wonder.
To avoid any wonders, means to avoid some variances of the game, either. This means limitations in experience.
As long as that is clear to the given player, I don't see any harm in going for a certain wonder.

JazzToucan · Jan 03, 2004, 05:56 AM

Considering graneries and barracks can be built for virtually nothing after your cities have been thriving for a decent period, I would disagree about the ones you mention. While, as noted, on the higher levels it's extremely difficult to beat the AI in terms of building Wonders, on the lower levels I think the Colossus can be a very powerful tool when built in a city with rivers, a gold mine, or commerce producing luxuries like silk or spice -- particularly when combined with the Observatory.

Pounder · Jan 03, 2004, 06:53 AM

Shakespears Theatre, build past size 12 without hosiptals and lots of culture (8).

Xen · Jan 03, 2004, 07:47 AM

1)Great Library

2)Statue of Zeus

3)Leonardos Workshop

4)Theory of Evolution

5)Great Lighthouse/Magellans Voyage

akillias · Jan 03, 2004, 08:06 AM

Best Wonder = Pyramid

watorrey · Jan 03, 2004, 08:48 AM

UN... just to keep it out of the AI's hands.

CyberTyrant · Jan 03, 2004, 10:04 AM

The UN isn't really the best, but it is the most important wonder. As someone else will tell you, it's the only one that can make you lose. Here are others I find to be pretty good/important:

Great Library
Leonardo's Workshop
Shakespeare's Theater
Smith's Trading Company
Theory of Evolution

watorrey · Jan 03, 2004, 10:44 AM

Ok, i'll give you that the UN isn't 'the best', just the most important.

My all time favorite is the Hoover Dam

EddyG17 · Jan 03, 2004, 11:31 AM

The temple of Artemis, best wonder second only to the pyramids, forget about building culture in every one of your cities in the early age, instead let one city do it all together and expand.

The best wonder combo is the pyramids and the Temple of Artemis.

I don't go for the Great Library because by the time i finish either the ai is really behind or it is only 3 or 4 tech before it becomes obsolete

Cuivienen · Jan 03, 2004, 11:37 AM

The Oracle + The Temple of Artemis is the best Wonder combo, but, since The Oracle is pretty bad by itself, the combo isn't worth it.

1. Theory of Evolution
2. Sun Tzu's Art of War
3. The Pyramids
4. The Great Library
5. The Statue of Zeus

6. The Temple of Artemis
7. United Nations

Longasc · Jan 03, 2004, 01:16 PM

I recommend the

BACCHANALIA

-> okay, they are only in the Rise of Rome Scenario.

I am playing Monarch Level, it is 50 B.C. and I OWN.

Never had so many happy citizens! Basically all are happy!
Why?

Only one Enemy, Carthage, and this one has been eliminated in 40 B.C.

Now I already researched all technologies, so I now set 50% LUXURIES and the crowd is happy!!!

Add the Bacchanalia -> 3 happy citizens in every city!!! In every City!!!

The only problem is that you need some spices you do not get too easy as a Roman in the beginning, but the computer did even worse and I was the only one that started building them right now.

My gripe with the scenario is that having no random seed preservation makes it tempting to reload, and that I already have researched all tech on Monarch level; I am not a very good player at all, perhaps not even mediocre.

Well, I think the Bacchanalia are the No.1 Wonder at least in this scenario.

Unfortunately I had to fix a missing Battleship.wav in the otherwise very interesting Pacific scenario, brrr, if they insist on making money by adding some changes other companies offer as patches and some cool scenarios, I think they should deliver a little bit more quality.

But otherwise I like it... and Bacchanalia made me happy, too.

SuperBeaverInc. · Jan 03, 2004, 01:36 PM

Personally I like The Great Library, Knights Templar, Smith's Trading Company, Theory of Evolution, and the Hoover Dam.

slothman · Jan 03, 2004, 02:41 PM

I always get Hoover. You can't go wrong with extra production.

Tom|420 · Jan 03, 2004, 04:21 PM

Wonders are a lot dependant of the status of the game, your position, and what victory conditions you intend to work for.

If you are after a Cultural Victory you will want several wonders, in particular those producing the most culture, since the basic improvements (temples, cathedrals, libraries, ...) are probably not enough, even if built very early. Of course, wonders are even more important if you enabled Wonders Victory condition, but I guess this one is obvious.

If I am a bit late on techs at the beginning of the game running for the Great Library will let me get back in the race.

The United Nations is an important one to run for if you enabled Diplomatic Victory condition, especially if you have not been kind and you feel you have no chance for such a victory, in which case you do not want a vote to take place.

Hoover Dam is a nice one, increasing production by 50% in each city on the same continent with a Factory in place. Usually I don't built power plants other than hydro to counter pollution which is already bugging enough at that stage of the game, I wait for hydro plants and run for Hoover Dam when it's available.

Shakspear is a nice one, but considering it is enabled for only the current city I don't usually run for it (unless it is made easy, for example if what was sold the tech in diplomacy), I prefer to wait just a bit more for sanitations (which, you figured, is just the pretty name for the toilets

) The end of Middle Age/Start of Industrial Age is usually in important period in my games regarding techs race, which is a reason why I don't usually run the Sheakspear.

Unless you are after Cultural or Wonders victory, I think wonders are only bonusses which help you on your way to victory but none of them is necessary (unless the UN for the above reason). Usually I will ignore wonders altogether in war time, preferring to allocate all my labor power to military units. But in periods of peace, especially if I am in position of defending if world stability changed, I will run for all wonders, making choices based on what bonusses will be good based on my status, unless I am in a position that bad that I must accept those left by opponents.

I have not yet managed to win at Regent level (I'm only going well at Warlord) so please let me know if my playing style regarding wonders seems odd to you

Jan 03, 2004, 03:25 AM	#1
whatever_du Chieftain Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada Posts: 75	Got any favorite Great Wonders?!? Well, just to know about that, to see if I'm normal ... :P Of course you have to get the Pyramid, The Sun Tsu is also a must but since i'M building Knight to eventualy upgrades to Sipahi to take over the world, and I like not to care of building defense units to protect my new cities, The Leonardo WorkShop is a Must to upgrade Units for cheap! So my choice in Orders- 1-Pyramid 2-Leonardo Workshop 3-Sun Tsu Art's of War What do you think ?!? !

Jan 03, 2004, 04:34 AM	#7
Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: near Koblenz, Germany Posts: 3,408	As I have stated in that thread, I think the advise given there is just as extreme as what should be prevented by following it. For that, I cannot consider it being really helpful, either. There are for sure some very helpful wonders, which are worth to race for them. What they are, depends on the game settings, so there isn't THE wonder. To avoid any wonders, means to avoid some variances of the game, either. This means limitations in experience. As long as that is clear to the given player, I don't see any harm in going for a certain wonder. __________________ "It is from their critics, not their fanbois, that companies learn the lesson of making good software...." Aristophanes Bello Civ4:Colonization: Modmerge: "Religion and Revolution 1.3" and "2 Plots City Radius"

Jan 03, 2004, 06:53 AM	#9
Pounder Phaethon was here Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: In your territory Mods: 618 Posts: 5,426	Shakespears Theatre, build past size 12 without hosiptals and lots of culture (8). __________________ Cobblestone Roads European City Set Bulrush Marshes Marshes Balloons for Fireworks Global Warming Thermometer Craters Railroads Airfields Desert Bones Transport Window Era Splashes Reef Celtic Towns River Deltas Sam & Flak Ruins Railroads TNG Resources Disorder Animation Middle Eastern Towns Wonder Splashes with Information Walls for Borders Air and Harbor Fitted Irrigation Stockade Borders Chainlink Fence Heavy Grass MesoAmerican Cities Turns Left Miscellaneous Graphics Old English Towns Pollution Click on Any of the Above or Click Here for My Complete CIV3 Graphics Library

Jan 03, 2004, 07:47 AM	#10
Xen Yeah! Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: FSU, Tallahassee FL Posts: 15,844	1)Great Library 2)Statue of Zeus 3)Leonardos Workshop 4)Theory of Evolution 5)Great Lighthouse/Magellans Voyage __________________ "well, thats neat."

Jan 03, 2004, 08:48 AM	#12
watorrey Deity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Rochester, NY, USA Posts: 2,007	UN... just to keep it out of the AI's hands. __________________ 1.22(f?) -- Supreme Lord: http://watorrey.net For better barbarians, add NoAIPatrol=0 to conquests.ini All Conquest & scenario players, map & mod makers: World size bug alert

Jan 03, 2004, 03:30 AM	#2
royb Regent! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Posts: 37	Welcome! Definitly pyramids. But yesterday I read a strategy article on how if you play on lower levels (I only play on Warlord) you should avoid building wonders. What level do you play on? Edit - http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=71238 Here's the article

Jan 03, 2004, 03:42 AM	#3
whatever_du Chieftain Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada Posts: 75	i'm playing warlord or regent... when I get Upset about not dominating on regent, I drop back to warlord... But I don't get why we should avoid wonders on a lower level ?!?!

Jan 03, 2004, 03:51 AM	#4
royb Regent! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: UK Posts: 37	Go to the link in my first post. Not building wonders will let you build more units or improvements. Just let the AI build the wonder for you and tak it from them.

Jan 03, 2004, 03:59 AM	#5
whatever_du Chieftain Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sherbrooke, Québec, Canada Posts: 75	interesting... thinking avout all the setlers and spearman who could be used to expand early instead of jumping on the pyramids..

Jan 03, 2004, 05:56 AM	#8
JazzToucan Warlord Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 261	Considering graneries and barracks can be built for virtually nothing after your cities have been thriving for a decent period, I would disagree about the ones you mention. While, as noted, on the higher levels it's extremely difficult to beat the AI in terms of building Wonders, on the lower levels I think the Colossus can be a very powerful tool when built in a city with rivers, a gold mine, or commerce producing luxuries like silk or spice -- particularly when combined with the Observatory.

Jan 03, 2004, 08:06 AM	#11
akillias Prince Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 353	Best Wonder = Pyramid

Jan 03, 2004, 10:04 AM	#13
CyberTyrant Formerly known as low Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Wisconsin, USA Posts: 1,210	The UN isn't really the best, but it is the most important wonder. As someone else will tell you, it's the only one that can make you lose. Here are others I find to be pretty good/important: Great Library Leonardo's Workshop Shakespeare's Theater Smith's Trading Company Theory of Evolution

Jan 03, 2004, 10:44 AM	#14
watorrey Deity Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Rochester, NY, USA Posts: 2,007	Ok, i'll give you that the UN isn't 'the best', just the most important. My all time favorite is the Hoover Dam __________________ 1.22(f?) -- Supreme Lord: http://watorrey.net For better barbarians, add NoAIPatrol=0 to conquests.ini All Conquest & scenario players, map & mod makers: World size bug alert

Jan 03, 2004, 11:31 AM	#15
EddyG17 King Join Date: May 2003 Location: Miami Posts: 779	The temple of Artemis, best wonder second only to the pyramids, forget about building culture in every one of your cities in the early age, instead let one city do it all together and expand. The best wonder combo is the pyramids and the Temple of Artemis. I don't go for the Great Library because by the time i finish either the ai is really behind or it is only 3 or 4 tech before it becomes obsolete Last edited by EddyG17; Jan 03, 2004 at 11:35 AM.

Jan 03, 2004, 11:37 AM	#16
Cuivienen Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 8,013	The Oracle + The Temple of Artemis is the best Wonder combo, but, since The Oracle is pretty bad by itself, the combo isn't worth it. 1. Theory of Evolution 2. Sun Tzu's Art of War 3. The Pyramids 4. The Great Library 5. The Statue of Zeus 6. The Temple of Artemis 7. United Nations

Jan 03, 2004, 01:16 PM	#17
Longasc Deity Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 2,763	I recommend the BACCHANALIA -> okay, they are only in the Rise of Rome Scenario. I am playing Monarch Level, it is 50 B.C. and I OWN. Never had so many happy citizens! Basically all are happy! Why? Only one Enemy, Carthage, and this one has been eliminated in 40 B.C. Now I already researched all technologies, so I now set 50% LUXURIES and the crowd is happy!!! Add the Bacchanalia -> 3 happy citizens in every city!!! In every City!!! The only problem is that you need some spices you do not get too easy as a Roman in the beginning, but the computer did even worse and I was the only one that started building them right now. My gripe with the scenario is that having no random seed preservation makes it tempting to reload, and that I already have researched all tech on Monarch level; I am not a very good player at all, perhaps not even mediocre. Well, I think the Bacchanalia are the No.1 Wonder at least in this scenario. Unfortunately I had to fix a missing Battleship.wav in the otherwise very interesting Pacific scenario, brrr, if they insist on making money by adding some changes other companies offer as patches and some cool scenarios, I think they should deliver a little bit more quality. But otherwise I like it... and Bacchanalia made me happy, too.

Jan 03, 2004, 01:36 PM	#18
SuperBeaverInc. Live Slow, Die Whenever Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick, Canada Posts: 14,598 Images: 6	Personally I like The Great Library, Knights Templar, Smith's Trading Company, Theory of Evolution, and the Hoover Dam. __________________ Six Seasons and a Movie

Jan 03, 2004, 02:41 PM	#19
slothman Emperor Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,223	I always get Hoover. You can't go wrong with extra production. __________________ Visit my forum at: http://www.thegaminguniverse.com/ for some of your gaming needs.

Jan 03, 2004, 04:21 PM	#20
Tom\|420 Warlord Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Quebec, Canada Posts: 103	Wonders are a lot dependant of the status of the game, your position, and what victory conditions you intend to work for. If you are after a Cultural Victory you will want several wonders, in particular those producing the most culture, since the basic improvements (temples, cathedrals, libraries, ...) are probably not enough, even if built very early. Of course, wonders are even more important if you enabled Wonders Victory condition, but I guess this one is obvious. If I am a bit late on techs at the beginning of the game running for the Great Library will let me get back in the race. The United Nations is an important one to run for if you enabled Diplomatic Victory condition, especially if you have not been kind and you feel you have no chance for such a victory, in which case you do not want a vote to take place. Hoover Dam is a nice one, increasing production by 50% in each city on the same continent with a Factory in place. Usually I don't built power plants other than hydro to counter pollution which is already bugging enough at that stage of the game, I wait for hydro plants and run for Hoover Dam when it's available. Shakspear is a nice one, but considering it is enabled for only the current city I don't usually run for it (unless it is made easy, for example if what was sold the tech in diplomacy), I prefer to wait just a bit more for sanitations (which, you figured, is just the pretty name for the toilets ) The end of Middle Age/Start of Industrial Age is usually in important period in my games regarding techs race, which is a reason why I don't usually run the Sheakspear. Unless you are after Cultural or Wonders victory, I think wonders are only bonusses which help you on your way to victory but none of them is necessary (unless the UN for the above reason). Usually I will ignore wonders altogether in war time, preferring to allocate all my labor power to military units. But in periods of peace, especially if I am in position of defending if world stability changed, I will run for all wonders, making choices based on what bonusses will be good based on my status, unless I am in a position that bad that I must accept those left by opponents. I have not yet managed to win at Regent level (I'm only going well at Warlord) so please let me know if my playing style regarding wonders seems odd to you __________________ I am member 40,000

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