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|Jan 07, 2004, 08:48 AM||#1|
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Göteborg, Sweden, Europe
Thoughts on Government types
I've been working on a mod for my personal pleasure, European/Mediterranean in focus, inspired by maps like this and this , and I'm changing the industrial/modern tech tree along these lines.
(There will be some changes to the Ancient & Modern tech-trees to, but I'm not finished with that yet. I'm also setting the timescale from 2000bc to 2050ad with 1000 turns instead of the usual 540, so there is ample time for more diverse governments and a few more revolutions.)
I'll be setting OCN pretty low, so corruption will kick in pretty fast, since there are many civs on a small map.
However, I'm a bit unsatisfied as to how the Governments currently work. Here's why:
1) The "good" government types (Republic and Democracy) come to early, and speed up the techrate to much.
2) In my opinion, the ancient era (in the real world) was full of different ways of government, much more than the middle ages. But as Civ is now, the new governments are discovered in late antiquity, and sometimes even later, since they are optional and there is a rush to the second age, especially now when feudalism is available. But in the real world ancient era there were "sacred kings" like the Egyptian pharaohs, independent city-states with more-or-less representative government (republican Rome, Athens, etc.), barbarian tribal confederations (Germans, Celts), huge totalitarian empires (imperial Rome, Persia, the alexandrian successor states, etc.). But in Civ everyone is in despotism until the middle ages, and after that most try to stay in republic...
So, I've been thinking on these lines:
Sacred Monarchy (think Egypt, available at Polytheism). I want this to be best for relatively few cities but with large population.
Rampant corruption, no despotism penalty, Pop rush, Mil pol 3, Unit support (2/4/8), Xenophobic (no culture until 50% pop). Low or no war weariness(ww)?
Tribal federation ((think Germans, Franks, Celts, requires new tech Tribal federation, which requires Polytheism and Warrior Code). I envision this as a primitive form of feudalism, no big cities, just many small villages. I've also added draft as an ability, but will make sure only a crappy militia spearman is available for drafting.
Communal corruption (just because it's cool!), no despotism penalty(?), Draft 1 or 2, Unit support similar to feudalism (4/0/0?), Military police 2 (?), No ww (hey, these guys should have peace weariness!), Money rush, Xenophobic.
Oligarchy/City States (think Greece, republican Rome, available where Republic is now). This should work well for a few cities, but not for a large empire. It has draft, since ancient Greece and Rome had some sort of citizen militia. The trade bonus is a big thing, so this government is severely handicapped in other areas. More "rough and dirty" than the current republic.
Trade bonus, despotism penalty(?), rampant corruption, Draft 1, Mil pol 1, unit support (0/1/2)?, Money rush, Xenophobic, Low ww.
Imperium (Think imperial Rome, perhaps ancient Persia and the alexandrian successor states. Available with ?? Probably some new tech requiring Construction, Polytheism & Code of Laws). Approximately the old monarchy. Perhaps some kind of government specific improvement made obsolete by Feudalism or Monotheism, causing problems with happiness or the economy?
Problematic corruption, no despotism penalty, Mil pol 2 (3?), Money rush or pop rush?, Unit support (2/4/8).
Feudal Monarchy (same as current feudalism, but without ww). Draft 1?
Absolute Monarchy (think late medieval monarchies in countries lacking an effective parliament, like Spain, France, etc.). This one should be more effective than Imperium, slightly less so than Constitutional monarchy (but better for military expansion).
As old monarchy, except Nuisance corruption or some other advantage. Mil pol 3, money rush, unit support (2/4/8)? Perhaps some kind of government-specific improvement (building or small wonder) that's made obsolete by Republic (see below). Xenophobic (think the pogroms after the reconquista and the conflict with Protestants during the 30yrs war).
Constitutional Monarchy (late medieval & industrial monarchies with functioning and influential parliament, like England, Sweden)
As old monarchy, except Nuisance (minimal?) corruption and low WW. Perhaps some government specific improvement made obsolete by communism.
Republic (available where Democracy is now. Basically the same as old republic). Think revolutionary France or USA.
Makes some sort of bonus building for Absolute monarchies obsolete, giving them trouble with the economy or happiness.
No unit support, Mil pol 1.
Communism - unchanged, more or less.
Makes some sort of bonus building for Constitutional monarchies obsolete, giving them trouble with the economy or happiness. Perhaps make Cathedrals or temples (churches) obsolete, to make sure there is a lot of civil disorder?
Add Forced resettlement?
Democracy (or Social Democracy or Modern Democracy) Available at some tech after Communism, say Labour union or Welfare state.
Maybe I'll even push it forward to the modern era, considder most western european states to be Constitutional monarchies or republics until the 1968 "revolution"?
Same stats as current Democracy, except Xenophobic. Not because democracies hate foreigners, just because it makes keeping occupied territory a bit harder, which sounds like a problem a democracy would have.
Fascism - unchanged, but a bit delayed. (Comes with Propaganda, which requires Mass communication which requires Radio. Or perhaps I'll make it require Communism & Corporations.)
OK, any thoughts/ideas? I'm looking from input both from experienced modders and history buffs.
It's a pity that there are so few ways of differentiating the different governments, basicaly just corruption, bonus/penalty and ww. I'd like to see something like a senate/parliament that could obstruct war declarations and peace agreaments.
I've considered the possibility to add government-specific buildings to differentiate between the different government types. Does anyone know how well the AI takes these into account when it decides which government to choose?
I know that the use of "draft" in the ancient era techs mean that I have to allow drafting during the entire game, not after the discovery of Nationalism as it is currently. I'll try to work around this by not allowing any draft for Absolute monarchy, and by only making certain units draftable.
I'll post my new techtree if anyone is interested.
|Jan 07, 2004, 09:23 AM||#2|
Rufus is coming in town!
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Freedonian North pole base
More of this ideas are already made by Kal-el on Dyp mod, take a look 4 some ideas.
4 government specific buildings, more of theme are already made by me and other here.
4 some icons, take a look here
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