Is Religious trait a crutch?

[Artifex]

Anyone who plays the higher diff levels refuse to use religious (makes it too easy)? Or is it balanced and OK as a trait?

[sealman]

i don't see it as crutch. sure you get one turn revolutions are nice, but you lose benefits from another trait that you could have had instead.

It is all a trade off.

[microbe]

Originally posted by Artifex
Anyone who plays the higher diff levels refuse to use religious (makes it too easy)? Or is it balanced and OK as a trait?

I think it's great. Cheap temples/Cathedrals. Good for a culture win.

[lbhhh]

The religious trait is well balanced IMO especially since you still experience *some* turns of anarchy between governments. The seafaring and agricultural traits also provide nice bonuses so I wouldn't consider religious a crutch.

[Artifex]

microbe I meant it is too good (makes the game too easy).

I know 1 turn revolutions and cheap cathedrals/temples are huge on high diffs IMO. Making this by far the strongest trait for high diffs IMO.

[Michael York]

I strongly disagree Artifex. I'd say that Industrious and then commercial are more powerfull. I find them far more usefull on deity and emporer. Since Republic has been improved, I might only switch gov'ts once in C3Cs. Besides, a marketplace is worth more happiness than a temple & a cathedral combined.

I can't even dream of achieving a cultural victory on Deity. (But I am very impressed with SirPleb's games where he has done just that as well as every other victory condition)

[Artifex]

Well I am not saying it is a crutch...I have heard many believe it is though. I think it is a good trait though..because you can switch govs and warmonger/peace build at your whim.

[Michael York]

I would agree that it definantely was a crutch for some in GOTM a year or so ago. I recall reading near newbies talking about trying a game without it. It is possibly the easiest to use when starting out, and still valuable if you like democracy & war at higher levels.

[wilbill]

If it's a crutch, it's not for veteran players, but for beginners. I get the impression that a lot of people use it to bounce around to the "best" government for war, peace, early game, late game, etc. instead of learning how to deal with WW, unit cost, corruption, happiness, and such.
If you only switch gov once or twice a game, the Religious trait is still useful, but not nearly as much as when you're switching 5 or 6 times.

[Dogmeat]

Originally posted by Michael York
I strongly disagree Artifex. I'd say that Industrious and then commercial are more powerfull. I find them far more usefull on deity and emporer. Since Republic has been improved, I might only switch gov'ts once in C3Cs. Besides, a marketplace is worth more happiness than a temple & a cathedral combined.

Correct me if im wrong but I believe commercial civs build marketplaces for regular cost no? At least I experienced that when I played as the Hittites (C3C v. 1.12) and i built marketplaces for 100 shields.

[Longasc]

Uh - is Religion no longer only 1 turn Anarchy? Has this been changed?

[Artifex]

Marketplaces are the best improvment in the game. I don't see what that has to do with commercial being better than religious? They cost the same for both.

If commercial got half priced marketplaces (which it does not) then that would make it very strong.

Marketplaces being great doesn't make halfpriced temples/cathedrals unimportmant. I still have unhappiness with marketplaces and a cathedral can help quell that especially WW on higher levels. Half priced temples and cathedrals on Emperor are great regardless of the marketplace..which I love too.

[Dogmeat]

Hmmm im still trying to figure out why the marketplace is tagged as commercial...

[Rellin]

Cause Smith's Trading Company makes it have zero maintence maybe?

Also, Marketplaces are only good for happiness if you have luxuries, if you have a crappy start and it will be a long time till you are able to aquire luxuries, relgious is a big help.

I wouldn't call myself a noob, and I always play as a Religious Civ because I like having happy people and lot of culture in my games, cheap temples and cathedrals work well, and I don't need to worry so much about luxury placement.

[socralynnek]

I like religious. But I don't think it's too easy with it. I think the traits are well balanced, so it depends on your style of playing which one you should choose.

[danwhit]

I second that response, socralynnek. It makes me laugh when people make judgements about which trait, which civ,which government,(even which improvement?) is best. It all depends on the situation. I imagine that Firaxis spent lots of time balancing everything. Someone's snap decision about which one is best is kind of pointless. If you think one is best, you probably either don't know how to utilize the others well, or it is just the best for your style. Usually the former.

Off subject: I also love it when people talk about some awesome new modification they made that makes the game better.

[Aggie]

I think regilious is a great trait. But it is not the trait that suits my style. I like to research and broker techs, so I tend to end up with scientific, commercial, seafaring or (on pangaea) expansionist as a 2nd trait next to agricultural, which I find the strongest civ of them all.