Submarines

[Mirv Sheelon]

Ideas re: alowing Submarines to have a single bombard attack to simulate sudden torpedo assault. In addition, I am thinking of making submarines Hidden Nationality.

[Luddi VII]

I'm the only who have voted.I voted Hidden Nationality plus bombard.

[Drift]

Originally posted by Mirv Sheelon
Ideas re: alowing Submarines to have a single bombard attack to simulate sudden torpedo assault. In addition, I am thinking of making submarines Hidden Nationality.

In addition to "bombarding" ships with torpedoes they will bombard cities and terrain improvements with them.

Hidden Nationality will make AI hate the subs like the plague. It will come after them and always know where they are.

Too bad.

[Bluemofia]

IF you want to make bombard, then you must make an animation of bombard as the sub rising above the water, and shooting a cruse missle, because it is not very realistic for a sub to torpedo a city

[Der PH]

If we had a flag 'bombard sea targets only', I would give the sub low A/D and a high bombard-value.
About the hidden nationality: In real history subs were only used in declared wars AFAIK, so I wouldn't do it, but on the other hand ... who cares about reality?

[Mirv Sheelon]

I agree with all these points. At the minute subs are basically useless, only being good as Naval Spy units or to blockade enemy harbours without actually starting any conflict.

With Hidden Nationality they are more useful because they can actually attack enemy ships without initiating conflict. In addition - their current stats are similarly useless - attack anything greater than a Frigate (slight exaggeration but you get the point) they are toast.

As for the bombard - this is a difficulty being able to bombard cities and ground units. But in the meantime its the only thing I can think of.

[Mirv Sheelon]

Now that I got Tactical Cruise missiles sorted out, I am going to remove the bombard figure and give subs two Cruise Missiles for Anti-shipping attacks. Didnt Tom Clancy have something like that, launched from subs?

Just gives them a bit more versatility and stops them being just so useless.

[Mirv Sheelon]

Meant also to ask - what exactly is the AI response to Hidden Nationality units? I thought they were treated no differently basically but saw somewhere that they are hunted down visiously.

[xxyyzz]

Originally posted by Mirv Sheelon
Meant also to ask - what exactly is the AI response to Hidden Nationality units? I thought they were treated no differently basically but saw somewhere that they are hunted down visiously.

Pretty much yeah! I love them! I make all my nuclear subs hidden nationality. No bombard though, because of the hidden nationality, that is too much. I have special ops troops for that

Back to the response, yes they do go after them and its alot of fun! I love using them guard my sea boundries, just make a wall of them aroud my area, with a few in reserve behind to replace the wounded/destroyed. I also added some HP to them, because they were too easy of prey. Getting a nuclear sub sank by a galley is just angering...... Must be some heafty arrows they are firing over the sides...... But the AI will build 'em and use them. Same with privateers if you start angering them with those.

[Mirv Sheelon]

And - I'm not going to be gamey and bombard cities with those Cruise missiles. I am resolved to use them against shipping targets only. If the AI wants to bombard my land/cities with them, then so be it. The AI needs all the help it can get. You can tell I dont often play Civ on the more difficult settings.

[Dogzilla]

Subs have enough abilities with invisible and stealth attack. I love the way they pick that transport out of the naval stack to prevent invasions.

[Mirv Sheelon]

Its just that their stats are, well, a bit crap really. I've given them A12 D12 to improve theer chances. If you read some of the wartime accounts of submarine warfare, as well as Tom Clancy novels, you appreciate that they are not just big floating targets.