RBC12I - The Western Roman Empire

You're probably right. I just couldn't remember which building tech it was. They're pretty useless, but i guess it's part of the scenario so you can see passing ships (maybe it has a historical counterpart?).
 
@outpost: I used a slave worker to make it on my last turn because I wanted to keep an eye on the channel between Ireland and England, and the slave wasn't doing anything useful anyway. However, its sight line is only 1 square - so if I had fortified the slave instead of building a watchtower it would have actually had a longer sight range!!! :crazyeye:
 
This will be a quick turnlog:

Not much to do. Convert all remaining scientists into Taxmen. Change all legion builds to HC. Justinian's and Hagia Sophia are due in 6. Change Durcotorum and Aug Trev to Walls, just to be on the safe side since they're right on the Frankish front. Change Pisae (our city in Gaza) to Barracks. I gift Wines to our E. Roman brothers - they're in bad shape and have no luxuries hooked up. Sell WM for 9g. We have 293 gold and make +45gpt. We wake the army in Aquicum and send it East. Destination: Attila's tent.

IT: Sassanids declare war on the Ostros. Franks move about 8 raiders north of Aug. Trev. Frank galley comes close to Scotland. Celts land a Warlord next to Deva.

474 AD (1): Well this is a nice way to start off my turns:

Should be fun trying to get him back to a Roman town . . .

I send a Dromon loaded with a Legion and HC to help retake Ephesus and help the Byz with the Sassanids. We've got this one in the bag, but we need to ensure that the ENTIRE empire makes it through this barbaric period! 3 catapults redline the Celt Warlord, and a Legion finishes him off. Kill a few units, but lots of resting and moving this turn. I buy a WM off of the Ostros for our WM + 70g.

IT: Franks and Ostros ally vs Sassanids. 2 legions killed. Franks land next to our British Furs Colony. Franks sink the Celtic galley which had landed the Warlord last turn!

476 AD (2): Kill Frank raider in Britain. I cautiously move our leader using only 2 of its 3 movement points to avoid ending its turn next to a Frank.

IT: Franks drop off another Raider in Britain. *6* Frank units appear next to our Leader :eek:

478 AD (3): Kill more Franks, and sink a couple of Celtic Galleys.

IT: Lose a Legion.

480 AD (4): HC Army begins siege of a size 9 Frank Town, Soissons. :hammer: all around.

IT: Ostros and Franks ally vs Celts. Frank stack moves towards the Alps. Franks start Justinian's.

482 AD (5): We bombard various tiles on the Irish coast. Kill Franks.

IT: Sass. move 3 horsemen a few tiles away from Ephesus - looks like the Easties needed our help after all. And then . . .

Now we're talking!

484 AD (6): Rome, @ 43spt, starts St. Peter's, due in 10 turns. We raze the Frank city of Besancon. Kill a bunch of Frank spears but their respective cities hold. Spot a stack of 2 Hun mauraders and an Elite Warlord in the East.

IT: Kill 3 Sass. Horsies on Defence in Asia Minor. Celts land a settler pair in Wales.

486 AD (7): The Hun/Ostrogoth front line:

We kill a couple of those Warlords. I sell off all continental barracks for +80g. Kill the Celt Migrant Pair. Sink 2 Celt Galleys. Raze another Frank city, and kill 3 Frank HC. Killing HC instead of Raiders will really help our VP score. Our leader from my first turn finally arrives in a Roman city and forms an army, waiting for 3 HC to arrive next turn.

IT: The Hun SoDs obliterate the Ostro city of Dampstadhir, but leave our Army alone. Lose a HC on D.

488 AD (8): Our Eastern Army will rest this turn before picking off some more Hun Warlords. Our newly formed HC army moves to the Franks. Kill more Franks.

IT: Lose a legion and kill a Frank HC. Huns continue their march on the Ostros. Frank galley appears in the English Channel.

490 AD (9): VPs are now at 32,040. Franks are at 6 cities eliminated. Kill two more Hun Warlords. No more cities razed, but 2 Frank cities are severely weakened. Sink a Frank curragh. Kill kill move move rest rest.

IT: 2 Frank HC fall to our mighty Legions.

492 AD (10): VPs are now at 32,650. Raze another Frank city, putting them at 7. And that's it for me.

Notes for next ruler:
-We have two HC armies within striking distance of a Frank city, so they'll be toast next turn. They have a few HC so there should be a nice VP bonus when we eliminate them.
-We're at 32,830 VPs, so no sense in going after the Huns or Ostros en masse, since we'll win before we could get a sizeable force over there.
-The only unmoved unit is the Eastern army on the Black Sea coast - the next ruler can either kill a few more Warlords or rest (it's at 7/14 hps).
-I didn't bother to MM at all, since this game is in the bag.
-St. Peter's is due in 6 turns.
-Could you post the final save after we win?
-We have 539 gold in the treasury and are making +168gpt. Feels strange to have a healthy economy :D. I spent a few hundred gold rushing Dromons in Britain over the course of my turns.

It's been fun guys. Some tense moments, frantic strategy arguments, team misunderstandings - but in the end we pulled together and really layed the smack down on the AI. After we win, I'll post my scenario thoughts for Gobi Bear (although much has already been said by our faster-playing RBC12J brothers ;) ).

Roma Aeterna!
 
IBT. Looks like our Empire is in great shape. Black Sea army fortified to heal. Celts land another settler/spear pair, Sassanids move some archers (??), spears, and horses (???). Franks move some units also, our dromon sinks their galley. Tarentum HC->HC, Antium HC->HC.
[1] 494AD. Skullcrushers kill 3 spears in Soissons, legion kills another. Legions kill raiders. Lost two dromons attacking redlined Celtic galley. Another dromon sinks another galley. Legion kills Sassanid archer. Upgraded horse in Pisae to HC, Moving HC there to help Eastern Rome. We captured Soissons and Franks are eliminated. VP 34910. We got another Celtic slave. Woke Danubians and killed 2 Hunn warlords. We are at 35090 VP.
IBT. Danubians die to a Hun warlord. Some Sassanid spears move. Their horse dies attacking our HC. Neapolis HC->HC, Deva dromon->dromon, Veii HC->HC, Victory. There is nothing more to say.The save of 494AD, just hit enter and watch Danubians die.

Thanks to all players. It was a great fun! We had no misunderstanding indeed! Thanks to Gobi Bear and all developers. And to CFC. And kudos to Eastern Rome team for finishing ONE TURN earlier (we lost a city after all to Celts).

 
:goodjob: Great Job to our Western Roman Bretheren. Both halves survived in both games, that was unexpected! I am definitely interested in hearing all your thoughts re: the scenario and difficulty. Akots, I especially appreciate your VP breakdown screenshot, well over half the total VPs from Locations. I still think something needs to be done about that.
 
Victory is ours! A quadruple triumph is ordered for the 4 heroes of Rome: Caesar_Augustus, akots, Doc, and Corrado!

Originally posted by akots
Lost two dromons attacking redlined Celtic galley. Another dromon sinks another galley.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters since we won :), but for future reference Dromons have lethal sea bombard, so you could have easily killed the galley that way instead of tempting fate with the RNG.
 





A big THANK YOU to Gobi Bear for letting us play this! I had modified this scenario to play as Western Rome when it first came out, but didn't make locked alliances so that game was a complete cakewalk compared to this one. Thanks again!

Point form scenario comments:

-Put the Ostros in as a locked opponent. Would make it harder for the Western Roman player to immediately handicap the Vandals with an all out assault.

-The East had the rougher go initially, because the Huns start with 10 horsemen and the Sassanids start with 2 archers, 3 horse, and 2 Elite HC. The most stressful time in our game was almost losing Britain, but we managed to hold out there and then pick off the pathetic Celtic landings. I'd recommend deleting one of the British legions (or move it to somewhere like Italy). This would make it harder for the Western player to take England and would make things up there much more interesting. I realize that the Celts would most likely overrun the island, but that's what I would want to happen. The game would be a lot more interesting strategically if Western Rome had to worry about the Celts pouring into Spain or France from England and Ireland. We only really had to worry about the Danubian frontier in this game since the Franks could easily be signed into an Alliance. Giving the Celts a better chance to take England would force the Roman to divert some forces to the Northwest.

Historically this makes sense too, since the Roman abandoned England around 406 AD. So the Western Rome player could either do the same, saving the legions to fight against other tribes, or it could spend some gold to rush units and try to hold them. Taking away one of their British legions would make this decision much more interesting.

-I like the ideas from the East ROme thread on giving the barb tribes more pop 1 cities and taking away an equal amount of migrants. The AI seemed to waste a lot of time moving Migrants around aimlessly.

-Maybe put a stronger strike barb force close to Western Rome, something like 5 hun horsemen. It seems kind of unfair that the East has to deal with many units off of the start, but the West can send its legions off to take out the Vandals early.

-For Barb tech rates - maybe allow the barb tribes to start with embassies so that they can research faster. I'm sure the Celts never got contact with the majority of the barb tribes, since we signed the Franks against them and they never met anyone else.

Besides that, the Eastern Roman thread has covered pretty much everything else.

Maybe in a few months we can revisit this scenario on Deity or Sid :D

-------

On a completely separate note, I'm thinking of starting a SG with a modified Rise of Rome scenario that I made, called 'Antony and Cleopatra'. Is anyone interested? The basics:

-We would play as Egypt.
-The Great Lighthouse will be placed in Alexandria (but NOT the Great Library).
-An empty army (Marcus Antonius) and a Legionary II (Legio III Gallica) would be placed in Alexandria. We must immediately load the legion into the army on turn 1. The catch: we CANNOT move the army out of Alexandria OR load any more units into it until the year 40 BC (Turn #62 of 130). Why? Because Antony first met Cleopatra at Tarsus in 41 BC, and also because I don't want to give Egypt an unfair military advantage to start the game.
-Also on turn 62/in 40 BC, we must declare war on Rome and remain at war with them until the game is over.
-I also made Horsemen (2.1.2, 30 shields) unavailable to Egypt so that we can build our War Chariots (2.1.2, 20 shields, can't move onto Mountains or jungle) throughout the game.
-I gave Egypt a galley in Alexandria.
-Finally, there is a unit called 'Cleopatra' in Alexandria. Standard King unit stats, but I also made her immobile so she can't leave. If Cleopatra dies, the game is over (on our honour, since Regicide is disabled).

I would like to play on Demigod, but am willing to go up to Deity or even Sid if interest for those levels is high. A few additions I thought of but left out:
-Giving Egypt a 3rd trait, agricultural, so that we could build effective desert cities in the Sahara instead of pop 1-2 outposts.
-Giving Egypt the Pyramids in Memphis, just for historical flavour.

I thought these two additions would be too powerful. What does everyone think?

EDIT: I've started a new thread for this scenario, so please post anything concerning it there
 
Originally posted by Justus II
... I especially appreciate your VP breakdown screenshot, well over half the total VPs from Locations. I still think something needs to be done about that.
Click to expand...

Not that it matters in the end. Even with some steady flow of Hun warlords, there is no substantial threat to West Rome and Sassanids are pathetic. They probably managed to lose iron somehow. To spice things up, it might be of interest to set victory condition as conquest. Then troops have to be shipped to Asia and Black Sea and somehow armies have to be shipped to Ireland. But its just more mouse-clicking for another 30 or 40 turns, not a big deal.

IMHO the game is very playable and enjoyable as it is now.
 
Thanks again to the team, turned out I was right in not expecting another turn. Despite some 'emotional' discussion, this was really a good SG; I think, our partially different build preferences and playing styles complemented each other extremely well.

C_A: RoR unfortunately is one of my least favorite Conquests, so we won't fight this one together. :(

My thoughts on the 'Rome Everlasting' scenarios:

What ever you do, don't make them more difficult! All players of both teams have the potential to beat Deity, and DG was already a challenge...and don't forget, the 1.15AI does not build Armies - if you make it tougher, an AI Warlord Army would be invincible

However, what felt wrong was that is was over so soon...IMHO it would be good if we both could use our well-earned GA to prepare for the REAL onslaught, instead of cruising to victory with everyone dead/ too far away.
I wouldn't change anything substantial in the beginning, but a lot in the end...

  • [1]More Harbors for ERome, no question. WRome has harbors in backwater cities like Carthage Novo and Massilia, and ERome not even in Ephesus?
    [2] I also like C_A's idea of more pressure on Britain, either only one Legionary or (my preference) more Celtic cities.
    [3] I especially do not like preplacing continental Barbarian cities, or more resources. While we managed to keep them away, we knew from the Barb games where the resources are, and we usually play above Regent ;) . The development of the Barbs felt quite right, but not that the game was over before the Warlords knocked at the door.
    [4]In other words, substantially less VPs from locations - maybe even half as much. The game should last at least 30 turns longer, and researching the complete tech tree as well has owning Justinian's leadership should be beneficial.
    [5] Something I (and I consider myself pretty familar with moding) completely fail to understand is: As a barb, I canbuy Fortification etc from the Romans, but as Roman, I cannot sell it to them? Looks like Flavors work that way, but it seems simply buggy to me.
    [6]No Keshiks for Rome! Cavalry wasn't exactly Rome's strength, they should get a 5/3/2 Cataphract with Mil Tradition. On the other hand, no Dromons and no Trebuchets for the Barbarians. However, I wouldn't object against Mercennary Cavalry a few techs later...
 
Just a thought, if Gobi Bear is still reading...

The real problem in the game seems to be that neither Rome ever faces a credible late-game barbarian horde. When humans are playing the barbarian tribes, it works becuase human intelligence can amass Warlord units with army and catapult support into a real stack of doom. But the AIs can't do that, and their Warlords end up being slow and easily picked off by the opposition.

I think the real solution, instead of piling on the tweaks so that it barely resembles the original scenario, is to beef up pillagers and warlords. If they're modified so that the AIs can wield them almost as well as the humans can, I think it'd create the late-game threat that seems to be desired.

There's a number of possible ways to do that. Increase their defense so they're not dead meat for counterattacking HCs. Remove the iron requirement to make sure the AIs can always build them - in the game as-is, simply deny a barb civ iron and you've already beaten them. Reduce their cost, which also reduces VPs earned from killing them. Maybe even give them movement of 2. I think some combination of these would result in the "holy crap here come the hordes" effect that'd give real suspense to the late game.
 
Yes, I'm still reading. I think my next step with the scenario is to make some of the widely agreed upon changes (one less legion in Britain; harbor in Asia Minor; Ostrogoths locked at war) and then play it myself at my usual difficulty (Emperor, perhaps DG). If I have a tough time at my usual difficulty, then it might be fine as is. I'll then just have to tip my hat to you all!
 
Gobi Bear,

The "Middle Ages Scenario" SG series is kicking off -- I have you lined up to host the Burgundy team :goodjob: (that's nothing formal, just starting the thread and either starting the game or assigning someone on your team to)

Those guys start in what seems to be between a rock and a hard place, so it's on Monarch. Let me know if this works for you. Also, if any of your colleagues want to join in the series, there's still room. See the thread:

RBC13 Middle East SG Series

Any tips of danger spots for the tougher games would be appreciated as well :D

Charis
 
Yes, I was hoping to start that today. Should have time. I don't mind trying it on Emperor. Monarch seems almost too low a setting. That okay if I move it up?
 
I have no problem at all. You know the expected difficulty more than anyone :p I also know one player on your team was hoping it was higher. You might check with the other players, but it's your call and I imagine Emperor will be just fine.

Charis
 
OK, I'm going for Emperor then. I have some intro material ready to post, so you should see the thread started soon.
 
IMHO, the best way to prevent an Eastern collapse is to send some Legions from North Africa and Italy to help out vs the Sassanids. Really like the idea of specialists across most of the Empire - its a good way to get SOMEthing out of those hopelessly corrupt cities. As W Rome, perhaps a good way to luxuries is to poach E Rome's, esp in a single-player variant. After all, in multiplayer, an intelligent E Rome will help prop you up any way it can, just to save itself - if either Roman Empire dies, the other will soon after

"A strong land is made of these four things: good roads, a strong army, a learned people, and just laws. If one of these fails, all of these will fail, if all of these fail, the land will fail" - Turkish proverb
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

AcaMetis
Nobles' Club 339: Charlemagne of the Holy Roman Empire
Replies
9
Views
2K
Kernigh
K
Lionic
[SCENARIO] The Cold War (TCW) Unofficial update by Lionic
2 3
Replies
52
Views
3K
Delta_Strife
Delta_Strife
The_J
  • Sticky
Old World update #121
Replies
3
Views
435
Solver
Solver
Leoreth
Updated Plans for DoC 1.18
2
Replies
39
Views
8K
Logoncal
Logoncal
sman1975
"Merlin" Scenario Engine (MSE)
2
Replies
23
Views
2K
sman1975
sman1975
Top Bottom