Bring back Cheat Mode!

Flak · Apr 14, 2004, 08:10 AM

This lets the players have some fun with the game for experimental exploits. I'd have to dig up Civ II to see what all of the options were, but the most useful one was View Entire Map. I always disapproved of them removing this feature. One should never remove good features when trying to advance the standard of a game. I hope Firaxis already has this on the drawing board.

CIVPhilzilla · Apr 14, 2004, 05:49 PM

Cheats ruin any and all games, so I said no keep it out.

Zurai · Apr 15, 2004, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CIVPhilzilla
Cheats ruin any and all games, so I said no keep it out.

How does allowing a scenario maker the ability to add or subtract units, etc, on the fly "ruin the game"? Actually, it was absolutely vital and one of THE most complained about changes in vanilla Civ3. It was very, very, very time consuming to balance modern age mods because you had to play an entire game to get to those units.

Ballazic · Apr 15, 2004, 12:16 PM

Exactly

aaminion00 · Apr 15, 2004, 12:49 PM

Bring back the cheat mode! How do cheats take away from the game? By tempting you to use them? No reason why that's gone.

Portuguese · Apr 16, 2004, 05:03 AM

Please no...
Let's us be more honest please.

judgement · Apr 16, 2004, 06:38 AM

I never used the cheat mode in Civ 2, but I voted Yes. It seems to me that "honesty" has nothing to do with this, and "cheat mode" is a misnomer: its really a powerful tool for testing mods. If you want to play the game without "cheating" (as I do) than simply do so: the presence of this tool would in no way force anyone to use it. If the name "cheat mode" bothers you, maybe they could call it "Modify this game." And as I recall, if you turned on "cheat mode" in Civ 2, you became ineligible for the high score list. Presumably, in Civ 4, you also couldn't use this feature in the middle of multiplayer games.

Besides, even if someone wanted to use this to "cheat" rather than to test a mod, why should I care? Nobody appointed me to be Honesty Police. I say put it in: I'll never use it (unless I somehow get a lot more free time and decide to try to make my own mod) but I think it should be there for the modders' sakes. No offense meant to anyone, but I fail to see how the presence of this tool "ruins" the game for anyone: unless someone cheats at multiplayer, how does what anyone else does with their game affect my game experience at all?

civilleader · Apr 16, 2004, 08:16 PM

Come on it was fun nuking them in 3000 Bce.

truckingpete · Apr 16, 2004, 08:34 PM

There was a cheat mode??? I always played my on regular game..

It would be fun to nuke in 3000BC..talk about world history.....weird

soren · Apr 16, 2004, 08:53 PM

My concern is that it will encourage new players to cheat rather than learn to play the game.

Playing with cheat in civ 2, at the time, may have been fun, but as I look at it back from now, I know it would be much better if I started playing the game authentically.

ainwood · Apr 17, 2004, 02:20 AM

If you want to test mods, then use the editor debug mode. No need for cheat mode, IMO.

rcoutme · Apr 17, 2004, 03:09 AM

I agree with the "Cheat Mode" request. I learned Civ 2 by watching what the AI did. This allowed me to understand how units could be used and how the AI civs got advantages at certain difficulty levels. Besides, sometimes I just liked watching the AI duke it out!

SummerStorm · Apr 17, 2004, 07:48 AM

As long as you can't cheat in multiplayer games why should it matter to anyone else if someone cheats in their own single player game?

Mewtarthio · Apr 17, 2004, 08:31 PM

What's wrong with Debug mode in the editor?

wilbill · Apr 17, 2004, 10:11 PM

I used the cheat mode in Civ 2 until I realized it was like playing with toy soldiers in a sandbox - I wasn't really playing the game. At this point, I wouldn't use it if it were available, so I wouldn't be bothered by it. But I do want the designers to spend all their time working on making the game better. If it takes them more than about 15 minutes to code the cheats, it's not worth it, IMO.

sionprawn · May 27, 2004, 04:00 PM

One of the best things about Civ is that it is a REAL challenge and all decisions are important. Allowing cheats takes away the importance form any decision making and completely removes any challenge.

Dell19 · May 27, 2004, 04:12 PM

Like in the other thread, allowing cheats would be a decent extra as long as using cheat mode cannot be hacked into and it is completely obvious when someone cheats by recording this with their score. The only possible problems would be cheats like reveal map that can be undone by loaded an older save but this is already possible by retiring and looking at the map.

sealman · May 28, 2004, 06:43 AM

I really don't care. If people want to cheat, whom am I to say that they can't. I would suggest bring it back but once enabled, score is not calculated. That way modders can test their creations and "cheaters" can not claim high scores as legit.

Dell19 · May 28, 2004, 06:51 AM

Yep the important thing about implementing a cheat mode is to specify that once cheat mode is used this is recorded so that people cannot get ihigh scores through cheating.

warpstorm · May 28, 2004, 07:05 AM

My problem is that once this is in the code base, some unscrupulous player will find a way to abuse it for competitive games. If it isn't in the code base at all it's that much harder.

View Poll Results: Bring Cheat Mode back into the game?
Yes! Solid Feature that added to the overall experience for many players.	167	52.68%
No, don't bring it back.	150	47.32%
Voters: 317. You may not vote on this poll

Apr 14, 2004, 08:10 AM	#1
Flak vBülletin Förum Join Date: May 2001 Location: Manchester, England Posts: 1,523	Bring back Cheat Mode! This lets the players have some fun with the game for experimental exploits. I'd have to dig up Civ II to see what all of the options were, but the most useful one was View Entire Map. I always disapproved of them removing this feature. One should never remove good features when trying to advance the standard of a game. I hope Firaxis already has this on the drawing board. __________________ I'm addicted to Civ, but I draw the line at "Shell = Civ.exe".

Apr 14, 2004, 05:49 PM	#2
CIVPhilzilla Reagan Republican Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 4,714	Cheats ruin any and all games, so I said no keep it out. __________________ "To live under the American Constitution is the greatest political privilege that was ever accorded to the human race." -Calvin Coolidge Economic Left/Right: 10 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: .51

Apr 15, 2004, 12:16 PM	#4
Ballazic Prince Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Edmonton Posts: 563	Exactly __________________ When looking back you're sad and not robust, you trust the future when yourself you trust: Oh bird, do you belong to eagle's brood? Are you Minerva's favourite hoot hoot?

Apr 15, 2004, 12:49 PM	#5
aaminion00 Stoned Join Date: May 2003 Location: Meh Posts: 4,306	Bring back the cheat mode! How do cheats take away from the game? By tempting you to use them? No reason why that's gone. __________________ Indeed

Apr 16, 2004, 05:03 AM	#6
Portuguese Vassalising Spain Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Oporto, Portugal (duh) Posts: 2,849	Please no... Let's us be more honest please. __________________ Incarnating D. João II in Civ4! Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/campelodemagalhaes

Apr 16, 2004, 06:38 AM	#7
judgement Itinerant Polymath Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 322	I never used the cheat mode in Civ 2, but I voted Yes. It seems to me that "honesty" has nothing to do with this, and "cheat mode" is a misnomer: its really a powerful tool for testing mods. If you want to play the game without "cheating" (as I do) than simply do so: the presence of this tool would in no way force anyone to use it. If the name "cheat mode" bothers you, maybe they could call it "Modify this game." And as I recall, if you turned on "cheat mode" in Civ 2, you became ineligible for the high score list. Presumably, in Civ 4, you also couldn't use this feature in the middle of multiplayer games. Besides, even if someone wanted to use this to "cheat" rather than to test a mod, why should I care? Nobody appointed me to be Honesty Police. I say put it in: I'll never use it (unless I somehow get a lot more free time and decide to try to make my own mod) but I think it should be there for the modders' sakes. No offense meant to anyone, but I fail to see how the presence of this tool "ruins" the game for anyone: unless someone cheats at multiplayer, how does what anyone else does with their game affect my game experience at all?

Apr 16, 2004, 08:16 PM	#8
civilleader Prince Join Date: May 2003 Location: Earth, Dharti, Bhumi, Gaea, Mundus Posts: 325	Come on it was fun nuking them in 3000 Bce. __________________ Five India Mods

Apr 16, 2004, 08:34 PM	#9
truckingpete Sportscaster! Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: North Dakota, USA Posts: 1,753	There was a cheat mode??? I always played my on regular game.. It would be fun to nuke in 3000BC..talk about world history.....weird

Apr 16, 2004, 08:53 PM	#10
soren The Existentialist Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 328	My concern is that it will encourage new players to cheat rather than learn to play the game. Playing with cheat in civ 2, at the time, may have been fun, but as I look at it back from now, I know it would be much better if I started playing the game authentically.

Apr 17, 2004, 02:20 AM	#11
ainwood Watching. Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 27,591	If you want to test mods, then use the editor debug mode. No need for cheat mode, IMO. __________________ Civ5 Tech Support FAQs \| Bug Report Forum \| Tech Support Forum

Apr 17, 2004, 03:09 AM	#12
rcoutme Emperor Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,792	I agree with the "Cheat Mode" request. I learned Civ 2 by watching what the AI did. This allowed me to understand how units could be used and how the AI civs got advantages at certain difficulty levels. Besides, sometimes I just liked watching the AI duke it out! __________________ Avoid, like the plague, a clergymen who is also a businessman. -- St. Jerome

Apr 17, 2004, 07:48 AM	#13
SummerStorm Chieftain Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 33	As long as you can't cheat in multiplayer games why should it matter to anyone else if someone cheats in their own single player game?

Apr 17, 2004, 08:31 PM	#14
Mewtarthio Emperor Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,930	What's wrong with Debug mode in the editor?

Apr 17, 2004, 10:11 PM	#15
wilbill That Old Time Religion Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: North Carolina Posts: 2,514 Images: 2	I used the cheat mode in Civ 2 until I realized it was like playing with toy soldiers in a sandbox - I wasn't really playing the game. At this point, I wouldn't use it if it were available, so I wouldn't be bothered by it. But I do want the designers to spend all their time working on making the game better. If it takes them more than about 15 minutes to code the cheats, it's not worth it, IMO.

May 27, 2004, 04:00 PM	#16
sionprawn Chieftain Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Sheffield England Posts: 15	One of the best things about Civ is that it is a REAL challenge and all decisions are important. Allowing cheats takes away the importance form any decision making and completely removes any challenge.

May 27, 2004, 04:12 PM	#17
Dell19 Take a break Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: London Posts: 15,883	Like in the other thread, allowing cheats would be a decent extra as long as using cheat mode cannot be hacked into and it is completely obvious when someone cheats by recording this with their score. The only possible problems would be cheats like reveal map that can be undone by loaded an older save but this is already possible by retiring and looking at the map. __________________ The MTW Succession game at CFC and the Viking Invasion succession game!, may be back one day. The Unification of Russia - A EUII AAR! Venice, a Great Power - A EUII AAR! Aragon, Catalan Independence - A EUII AAR! Italian EUII AAR - Who can stop the Ottomans? The road to Moscow - A French Hearts of Iron II AAR

May 28, 2004, 06:43 AM	#18
sealman Hater of Babylonians Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 3,326	I really don't care. If people want to cheat, whom am I to say that they can't. I would suggest bring it back but once enabled, score is not calculated. That way modders can test their creations and "cheaters" can not claim high scores as legit.

May 28, 2004, 06:51 AM	#19
Dell19 Take a break Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: London Posts: 15,883	Yep the important thing about implementing a cheat mode is to specify that once cheat mode is used this is recorded so that people cannot get ihigh scores through cheating. __________________ The MTW Succession game at CFC and the Viking Invasion succession game!, may be back one day. The Unification of Russia - A EUII AAR! Venice, a Great Power - A EUII AAR! Aragon, Catalan Independence - A EUII AAR! Italian EUII AAR - Who can stop the Ottomans? The road to Moscow - A French Hearts of Iron II AAR

May 28, 2004, 07:05 AM	#20
warpstorm Yumbo? Yumbo! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Snack Food Capital of the World Posts: 7,687	My problem is that once this is in the code base, some unscrupulous player will find a way to abuse it for competitive games. If it isn't in the code base at all it's that much harder. __________________ "Perfection is attained, not when no more can be added, but when no more can be removed." The opinions expressed herein are my own personal opinions and do not represent my employer's view in any way

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