Hall of fame suggestion/Split it

[ConanConQ]

I dont want to make enemies on this site, but I feel the need to speak my heart regarding the HoF at the moment.

You may agree or disagree, but I feel that games which are ended almost even before they begin (in the early BC's) and still gets a score that could humiliate any score that any decent player would struggle to get by playing the game through, does NOT deserve the right to be on the HoF together with "us serious Civvers"

I think the effort of making a good score should be reflected on how well you command your forces, your strategy, not how lucky you are in finding the opponents and wiping them out with 1 single unit. BLAHH

I think the HoF should split into 2... 1 for the "real" players, and 1 for the score hogs who finish their huge score games in a matter of minutes.

I hope I did not offend anyone!

A respected score is in my view a score that has been earned with a minimum of luck.

[fret]

Why does the HOF need splitting when its database driven? You can split it yourself, almost any way you please.

[ConanConQ]

Thats right, but it bothers me that every time I open the HOF, all the early victories are ruining the viewing pleasure. Allow 1, disallow the other..Choose 2 categories, early wins, and late wins. Would make it GREAT

I've come to the conclusion that it is fair. Mainly because of this thread:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showth...threadid=65088

Just because some people pend more time getting victories doesn't mean those victories are any better.

[ConanConQ]

Aeson wrote:
That's the type of gameplay tiny/conquest on a low difficulty level is going to offer Darkness. If you don't like it, don't play those types of games. I'd personally never even want to play such a game, but it's going to be a category on the HOF for those who do.


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Well, thanks for pointing out that thread for me.

[ConanConQ]

Originally posted by Gainy bo

Just because some people pend more time getting victories doesn't mean those victories are any better.

I totally disagree here, playing for 1 minute proves nothing. Luck is the essence. I hate luck, its like having a HoF for lottery winners. Proves nothing except that you have a good nose for finding your opponent fast.

Certainly I understand that players want to get to the hall of fame without effort. I hate the endphase pf milking a game. I hope that the next civ edition will allow you to get your points worth with a "hurried" milking option once all enemies are defeated except one city. Civ itself should be able to calculate the score after, lets say, the remaining 250 turns once you initiate this special option. You could do whatever you need to do first, irrigate all squares, hospitals and markets, then, instead of sitting there hitting the spacebar, just get civ to make an estimate. Ohhh.. many hours saved !!

[blindside]

Those early finishes can only go so far. If you truly do a good job milking your game then it should be easy to surpass those type of scores. Also I don't feel you're giving them enough credit. I personally don't like playing on tiny maps but winning early and quickly is difficult. There is obviously some element of luck, as there is everything we do, but its alot harder than you think.

But that's how the scoring system works. It is wrong to suggest milking is any fairer, as you are playing the game as it was not really meant to be played.
There is an element of luck in Milking, just as there is an element of skill in fast finishes.

[ConanConQ]

Originally posted by blindside
There is obviously some element of luck, as there is everything we do, but its alot harder than you think.

I tried it ONCE just to see. I even got a score among the top 10, about 5700 on warlord level. I regret submitting it... breaking my own principle. And trust me, it was NOT that hard, not even for a first timer.

[ConanConQ]

sorry, 7600

[fret]

Originally posted by ConanConQ
You could do whatever you need to do first, irrigate all squares, hospitals and markets, then, instead of sitting there hitting the spacebar, just get civ to make an estimate. Ohhh.. many hours saved !!

Those turns dont usually take many hours. Once its milked you just sit there tapping the space bar from time to time while watching TV, takes about 2 cans of lager to complete, it is pretty pointless though

Its the mass war turns leading upto the re-settle and rushbuild phase, and the 3-400 workers that clock up the hours IMO. Not the space bar tapping.

[ConanConQ]

When I am playing, I have fun.. the wars, the building, but when they are all dead, save one, it is simply boring. And if you play as many games as I do, with as little patience as I have, the spacebar tapping drives me crazy. 1 hour tapping is not for me, wish I didnt have to... hard work for getting on the HoF.. CURSE the HoF.. !! LOL

[boogaboo]

ConanconQ, I understand what you say, and am not offended (I'm hardly ever offended, since I can understand other people..).

I think the HoF is just fine in that aspect, since you can always switch to "histographic" or other view of the DB..
Also, I am going for score, and this is how the game was built for score.
It is true that the element of luck is big, but this is especially true for tiny/low difficulties. Try beating the 800BC in {small/deity}, and I'm sure it won't be half as easy, and you'll haveplenty of tactics without having to even go to middle ages....

I'm sure you can milk larger land mass and not bother about conquest, but think about it this way:
When you start a large size milking game.. what do you do first?
I'm sure expanding and conquering is among the first things.
Conquest victories just prepare you to that phase (and give you glory..).

So, the DB can be split your way if you want - no need to look at fast finishes.

Chaim.

[zerksees]

I think boogaboo has spent more than a few minutes trying to get high scores on the small map - check out his thread.

Try checking out some of the categories - not just score. We all know the fast finishes are going to get high scores on tiny and small - but those are all conquest. How many spaceship or culture victories are even in the HOF? Since Aeson's upgrade to the HOF there are so many categories that don't have one entry - let alone ten - that there are pletny of chances to lead some category. Just know that if you want the overall high score in tiny or small you will probably need a fastest finish. Aeson has enough work to do just to keep up with one HOF.

Furthermore, I am not sure that selecting huge maps with cattle and luxury near the capital, sedentary barbs, and picking weak AI enemies, and then milking at the end is any more legitimate a way to get a HOF score. However, that is what it takes at the other end to get the high score.

I am not a big fan of fast conquest finishes but I certainly don't care if others choose to play that way - and the HOF let's them in.

Before I paid much attention to the HOF, when I reached a victory condition I took it. Maybe the HOF should be in 3 categories - one for that kind of game too.

[boogaboo]

I think the size and conditions for winning is how the DB should be split, but I may be wrong.

Also, I'm starting to feel almost daily pitty on Aeson..
Too many HoF entries to check and people that count on you.
On the other hand, I'm waiting for this update for almost a month..

[EMan]

........An IMPOSSIBLE task.

Initially the HOF was simply a set of High-Score Tables (6) separated by difficulty level.

There was a lot of whining, errrr I mean discussion, about how the Milkers' games were not legitimate High-Score games and that Fast Finishes required much more skill. I don't think there has been that much INTENSE competition on Fast Finishes, with the EXCEPTION of boogaboo and his Aztecs.

AND, recently, Aeson agreed to open new tables for Histographic (Milk-Run) victories.....which heretofor could NOT make the Tables on Tiny/Small maps.......so NOW you can milk Tiny/Small maps and get in a Table.

I'm SURPRISED that the Anti-Milkers haven't filled the Fast Finish Tables..................BUT, I do think there is SOMETHING for everyone!

Pretty amazing value for FREE!!!