Scenario Project: Assyrian Empire

[Louis XXIV]

The Assyrian came down like the wolf on the fold,
And his cohorts were gleaming in purple and gold

This is going to be my first ever scenario project, so I obviously will need some help. The time frame will be from approximately 1100 until 612 BC (or around that time). Basically the time of the Neo-Assyrian empire. A long time has passed since the Assyrians shed the rule of the Mittanni and an even longer time since the land was ruled by Sargon of Akkad. Assyria has just come out of troubled times, and has begun its historic expansion.

I'm thinking about including the following civilizations:
Assyria, Babylon, Medes, Egypt, Phrygia, Neo-Hittites, Phoenicia, Judah, Urartu, and Elam. I might add the Aramaeans as well. I might add more, or take away some, depending on what people think. I'm thinking about making Assyria, Babylon, and Medes playable. I might consider the Egyptians too

I need city-lists for all of them except Egpyt, Babylon, and Phoenicia. I have some idea for Assyria and Medes, but I could possibly use a better one. The Phrygians, Neo-Hittites, and Urartu are probably my biggest question marks city-wise. Also, I'll need to pre-place a lot of cities in these areas, so I'll need a map.

I'm also considering special rule changes to increase the strength of resistors. I'm considering a few other changes as well.

I'll keep everyone updated of my progress, but, in order to do so, I will need your help to even have progress.

[emu]

i could load up "chariots of war" that is set in the middle east and has lots of cities on it but im not sure if its accurate ( or where i put it for that matter )

[Louis XXIV]

I don't think you can upload the game, but, if its possible to upload screenshots, it might be useful.

[mrtn]

Louis; I'm fairly sure that emu meant "start" the game, rather than upload it...

[Yoda Power]

Urartu:

Tushpa
Toprakkale
Cavustepe
Korzut Kalesi
Bastam
Malazgirt
Adilcevaz
Altintepe
Aznavur
Haftavan Tepe
Karmir-Blur
Armavir-Blur
Kayalidere
Kancikli
Erebuni
Rusahinili

The next are the names of fortresses:

Arinberd
Qalatgar
Komurhan
Dogubayazit

And stela or inscriptions locations

Palu
Sevan
Topzawa
Rusa
Kel-a Shin

[Louis XXIV]

Originally Posted by mrtn

Louis; I'm fairly sure that emu meant "start" the game, rather than upload it...

Woops, my bad

Yoda, thanks. BTW, I found an old map you made which had some Mitanni cities (about 8 of them), I hope you don't mind if I use those as well.

I have someone making the map. He's pretty good at making them, but I don't know what to expect because he uses unpatched, vanilla, Civ3, so he doesn't even get a minimap to check his progress. When he finishes, I can start work on placing cites. If I don't like the map, it its possible that I could use Yoda's map, and just have an awful lot of blank spaces (maybe I'll block the area off somehow).

As for another civ, how does anyone feel about Elam? I know that they posed a constant threat to Babylon, and Assyria would fight with them to protect their interests in the region. Also, I think I got some cities for them.

[Yoda Power]

Originally Posted by Louis XXIV

Woops, my bad

Yoda, thanks. BTW, I found an old map you made which had some Mitanni cities (about 8 of them), I hope you don't mind if I use those as well.

I have someone making the map. He's pretty good at making them, but I don't know what to expect because he uses unpatched, vanilla, Civ3, so he doesn't even get a minimap to check his progress. When he finishes, I can start work on placing cites. If I don't like the map, it its possible that I could use Yoda's map, and just have an awful lot of blank spaces (maybe I'll block the area off somehow).

As for another civ, how does anyone feel about Elam? I know that they posed a constant threat to Babylon, and Assyria would fight with them to protect their interests in the region. Also, I think I got some cities for them.

Ofcause I dont mind, btw Malataya was never Mitanni, I dont remember why I added it in that very old scenario.

There is a tool witch allows you to copy and paste parts of maps, that way you could just the area you need.

Its probably a good idea to include Elam.

[Louis XXIV]

If you have a new Mitanni city-list, it would be appreciated as well.

BTW, I considered doing that, but it would also result in a map that is too small (I don't want the game to be too short).

[Yoda Power]

Sorry cant get you a good Mitanni list, I just happened to have a good map of Urartu in a book of mine.

[Louis XXIV]

OK.

BTW, I'll be gone for the next week or so. I hope I can work on it during that time, but, if not, I'll work on it when I get back. Who knows, maybe the Assyrian Chariot will be done by then.

[The Last Conformist]

I think you'd need an Aramaean civ somwhere in NW Mesopotamia or therearounds. Such folks long held the Assyrians away from Phoenicia for quite a while.

I attach an old city list I compiled for TAM. Might be of some use.

[Louis XXIV]

I thought the Aramaeans were SW of Assyria (I was never positive, they were just described as constantly having to be beaten back past the Euphrates.

I was thinking of making them barbarians. They were seen mostly as a disruptive force, not as a civilization. Urartu and Medes started out this way, but constant Assyrian attacks forced them to civilize a bit, as they needed organization to fight against Assyria.

That being said, I might make them a civ. The Aramaeans have one major contribution that sets them apart. Their language became basically the universal language of the Middle East. Aramaic was adopted by the Persians, instead of using their own language, because most of their subjects already knew it.

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by Louis XXIV

I thought the Aramaeans were SW of Assyria (I was never positive, they were just described as constantly having to be beaten back past the Euphrates.

Correct -- ca. 1300 BCE they were in between the Hittites, Mitanni, Assyrians, the Kassite Kingdom of Babylon, and the Amorites.

BTW shouldn't the Greeks be in here -- likewise by 1300 the Greek Kingdoms of Mycenae and Knossos were well established and literate, with Cyprus (Alasia) also being seized. The Phrygians and Lydians might also deserve a place, as, together, they overran much of Anatolia ca. 1000 BCE.

-Oz

[The Last Conformist]

I don't see the contradiction 'tween being SW of Assyria and being in NW Mesopotamia?

We talking about the area around the middle Euphrates.

Given the patheticness of barbarians in C3C, I don't think that idea will work well.

[Arne]

Originally Posted by Louis XXIV

This is going to be my first ever scenario project, so I obviously will need some help. The time frame will be from approximately 1350 until 612 BC. Or basically, as soon as Assyria frees itself from Mittanni rule, and lasting until the Median-Babylonian alliance captures Nineveh.

Okay my little suggestion: I think, starting araound 800 bc would be a better idea. Why? Well, you allready spoke "the catostrophic collapse of the Hittites by the Sea Peoples". But the Hitties where not the only one wich was going out of history that time. Here is Ramesses III's speech about the war against the Sea Peoples: The countries -, the Northerners in their isles were disturbed, taken away in the fray - at one time. Not one stood before their hands, from Hatti, Kode (Kilikia), Karkemish, Arzawa (also in Anatolia), Alashia (this is Cypre), they were wasted.They set up a camp in one place in Amor (Syria). They desolated his people and his land like that which is not. They came with fire prepared before them, forward to Egypt...."

That means, alle these lands starting from Hatti down southwards to the northern Borders of Egypt where wasted by so called "Sea People". That's why I think you could better start with Uratu and Phrygia instad of Hatti and Mitani. Just my opinion.

[billesarius]

The list above is mostly Turkish place names. I have a map of Haldia (Urartu) saved but the quality is not great. Some place name that I can make out...
Tushpa
Menuaskhinili Tartuni
Argishtiuna Melibia
Nishtun Shihila
Musasir Ziukuni
Eribuni Aniushtanin
Teishebani Ushini
Durubani Akhurriani
Argishtihinili Tariuni
From another source, Shamiramalti.

[Mithadan]

Elam: yeah.

Arameans: yes, you will need somebody to fill in that part of the map...Ashurnasirpal II's big move was to the Mediteranean thataway, in order to control trade...

Dunno what to say about the Sea Peoples...

Israel: if yer gonna have Judah, shouldn't you also have the northern kingdom as well? These were the ten tribes that Assyria carried off into captivity and replaced with the Samaritans. Or is the map going to be too small for that?

[Louis XXIV]

Originally Posted by ozymandias

Correct -- ca. 1300 BCE they were in between the Hittites, Mitanni, Assyrians, the Kassite Kingdom of Babylon, and the Amorites.

BTW shouldn't the Greeks be in here -- likewise by 1300 the Greek Kingdoms of Mycenae and Knossos were well established and literate, with Cyprus (Alasia) also being seized. The Phrygians and Lydians might also deserve a place, as, together, they overran much of Anatolia ca. 1000 BCE.
-Oz

Greeks only have to be in if it would look funny with them out. They really didn't have much of an influence, and, if I can help it, I would rather not have them.

Originally Posted by The Last Conformist

I don't see the contradiction 'tween being SW of Assyria and being in NW Mesopotamia?

We talking about the area around the middle Euphrates.

Sorry, my bad. I guess I wasn't paying attention.

Given the patheticness of barbarians in C3C, I don't think that idea will work well.

Probably. It would be nice if Barbarians worked better, but I have to work inside the system. I'll have to think about the Aramaeans just a tad bit more before I make my decision, though. (OT: A fun, but kinda pointless, thing to do would to make a game with Hidden Nationality Settlers and build cities inside their cultural borders. The cities have a high chance of flipping, but, for a few minutes, I got a kick out of completely distrupting an AI's civilization).

Originally Posted by Arne

Okay my little suggestion: I think, starting araound 800 bc would be a better idea. Why? Well, you allready spoke "the catostrophic collapse of the Hittites by the Sea Peoples". But the Hitties where not the only one wich was going out of history that time. Here is Ramesses III's speech about the war against the Sea Peoples: The countries -, the Northerners in their isles were disturbed, taken away in the fray - at one time. Not one stood before their hands, from Hatti, Kode (Kilikia), Karkemish, Arzawa (also in Anatolia), Alashia (this is Cypre), they were wasted.They set up a camp in one place in Amor (Syria). They desolated his people and his land like that which is not. They came with fire prepared before them, forward to Egypt...."

That means, alle these lands starting from Hatti down southwards to the northern Borders of Egypt where wasted by so called "Sea People". That's why I think you could better start with Uratu and Phrygia instad of Hatti and Mitani. Just my opinion.

This idea intrigues me, but I'm definately too tired to figure everything out tonight. 800 seems a bit late, as so much Assyrian history had already happened, but I'll definately consider starting after 1100 BC. It would also prevent me from having to rely on Barbarians to finish off a civilization. Also, the game would no longer be required as a regicide game.

Actually, I just checked, and I found out Urartu formed basically at the first millenium BC, so maybe 1000 BC or even 900 BC would be a more accurate place to start. If I don't have the Hittites, who will fill Anatolia?

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Elam: yeah.

OK, its decided, I'll keep them

Arameans: yes, you will need somebody to fill in that part of the map...Ashurnasirpal II's big move was to the Mediteranean thataway, in order to control trade...

Dunno what to say about the Sea Peoples...

Israel: if yer gonna have Judah, shouldn't you also have the northern kingdom as well? These were the ten tribes that Assyria carried off into captivity and replaced with the Samaritans. Or is the map going to be too small for that?

About the map size, I wouldn't know. About two seperate kingdoms, technically speaking they should. The only potential problem I can think of tonight is other kingdoms might require the same treatment. They were united for parts of history, and they strongly share the same culture, so there is good reason to keep them together. But, than again, Judah managed to live because they often wouldn't help their northern neighbor. I'll figure this out later.

BTW, I'm going to start work on this again very soon, no that I'm back from vacation.

[Mongoloid Cow]

If your focus is on Assyria, starting between 1100 - 900BC, a good year could be 1038BC when Ashurnasirpal I founded the Sixth Dynasty (the previous Fifth Dynasty was plagued with troubles IIRC). Then again, you might want the player to have to work out some of those problems.

[Louis XXIV]

I'll have to refresh my memory a little bit more on this period of history of Assyria, but I think that sounds fine. Another possibilty is the reign of Tiglath Pileser II in 967. But now that I have a general time frame, I don't need to worry about an exact date yet.