Graf Zeppelin WIP

[Wyrmshadow]

Just call me carrier happy.

[Steph]

What aircrafts did the Germans used for naval aviation?

[Arvln]

Is it bigger than lexington class carrier?

[TopGun]

Been waiting for THE German carrier for a long time... cool Wyrm that you're finally making it!

[TopGun]

Steph... the Germans had a navalized Messerschmitt Bf 109 (the Bf 109T), navalized Stuka Junkers Ju 87 dive bombers and a Fieseler biplanes for recon/torpedo bombing earmarked for the Graf Zeppelin.

[Wyrmshadow]

German Naval Aviation

Dimensions
Size (Max): 23200 t
Length (Total): 262,5 m
Length (Flightdeck): 244,5 m
Beam: 27,0 m
Draft: 7,6 m
Crew:

Lexington 274m length

[Ozymandias]

Mighty fine choice, Wyrmshadow

-Oz

[MarineCorps]

Are those lines near the front of the ship catapults?

[Wyrmshadow]

Yes, the design is actually a cradle that theplane sits in and gets launched from. Much like a battleship's catapuls. More primative than Brittish designs.

[Thorgrimm]

A little info on the planes and air group of the proposed carrier.
Messerschmitt's proposal for a shipboard fighter was designated Bf 109T (T for "Trager"). It was basically a Bf 109E-1 with a larger wing, an attachment point for catapult points underneath the fuselage, and an arrester hook underneath the aft fuselage. A breakpoint was incorporated in the wing spar outboard of the gun bays to permit manual folding of the wings. However, the wing folding process was complicated by the need to detach the flaps prior to folding. The landing gear still retracted outwards, but the undercarriage legs were made stronger in order to accommodate the faster sink rates involved in carrier landings. Armament was to consist of two fuselage-mounted 7.9-mm MG 17 machine guns and either two MG-17 machine guns or two 20-mm MG-FF cannon in the wings. The engine was the Daimler Benz DB 601A
In March of 1942, British carrier-based aircraft were able to drive the battleship Tirpitz away from two Allied convoys on the Murmansk run, and Admiral Raeder insisted that aircraft carriers would be absolutely necessary in the future to protect commerce raiders from enemy air attacks. On May 13, 1942, orders were given that construction on the Graf Zeppelin be resumed, and that it should carry an air group of 28 bombers and 12 fighters. However, by this time, the Bf 109T was considered obsolescent for shipboard operations, and proposals were solicited for new carrier-based fighters.
The Messerschmitt company submitted the Me 155, which was basically a navalized Bf 109G. It had a fuselage basically similar to that of the standard Bf 109G, but with an entirely new wing. The undercarriage retracted inwards into wing wells, providing the wider track required for safe carrier landings. Standard naval equipment such as folding wings, catapult spools, and arrester hooks were fitted. The powerplant was a 1475 hp Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1 liquid-cooled engine. Armament was to be one engine-mounted 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 20-mm MG 151 cannon and two 13-mm MG 131 machine guns in the wings. Estimated maximum speed was 403 mph.

Detailed design of the Me 155 was completed by September of 1942. The Me 155 project was to evolve into a design for a single-seat bomber, then into a high-altitude interceptor. In August 1943, the project was transferred to Blohm und Voss and was redesignated BV 155. It went through numerous changes in design, and was still under test when the war came to an end.

There was also a carrier-based version of the Stuka dive bomber. The navalized version of the Stuka intended for service aboard the Graf Zeppelin was designated Ju 87C. It was basically similar to the Ju 87B, but featuring catapult spools, arrester gear, and jettisonable main undercarriage members for emergency landings on water. Flotation equipment was provided, and provisions were made for manually-folded outer wing panels.

The first Ju 87C-0 pre-production aircraft appeared in the summer of 1939, and the definitive shipboard Ju 87C-1 was to have featured an electrically-activated wing folding mechanism and provisions for carrying a single torpedo under the fuselage in the place of the usual bombs. When work on the Graf Zeppelin was suspended in October 1939, the contract for the production Ju 87C-1s was cancelled, and the aircraft on the production line were completed as Ju 87B-2s.

This thing had a small air group of 28 bombers and 12 fighters. Basicly a CVL.

Cheers Thorgrimm

[Wyrmshadow]

When you get the technology for it, replace
Me-109--->Me-262
Ju87 Stuka--->Arado Blitz Bomber
Fi167 torpeoe biplane ---->Me-410 Hornet, or the Me-110.

[Thorgrimm]

Wyrm, i would have to disagree with you on the upgrades, as it was not large enough to be able to base jets off of. The US was not able to base jets on carriers till the Midway class IIRC. The Zepp was just too small.



Cheers Thorgrimm

[Wyrmshadow]

Where's your imagination?

[Thorgrimm]

Well here is the funny thing about models, you can put on them anything you like, but trying to get that to work in the real world, well it just isn't happening.




Cheers Throrgrimm

[MarineCorps]

Originally Posted by Wyrmshadow

Where's your imagination?

You forget already? He doesn't have one!

[Thorgrimm]

Marine Corps wrote:

You forget already? He doesn't have one!

I beg your pardon! I have a great imagination, but i try to ground it in somewhat realistic plausibilities



Cheers Thorgrimm

[Arvln]

One of the plane sure looks like E-2c Hawkeye. What is that plane ?

[Ozymandias]

Originally Posted by Arvln

One of the plane sure looks like E-2c Hawkeye. What is that plane ?

Looks like an Arado with an AWACS dome.

-Oz

[Arvln]

Originally Posted by Thorgrimm

Wyrm, i would have to disagree with you on the upgrades, as it was not large enough to be able to base jets off of. The US was not able to base jets on carriers till the Midway class IIRC. The Zepp was just too small.



Cheers Thorgrimm

Actually you are wrong. US Navy deploy fighter jet squadrons in Essex class. I believe that Essex and Lexington are more or less in equal size; therefore I think Zepp could be use to base jets aircraft.

I think the question is not about the carrier size the pilot but rather whether the jet is able to take off from the ships. Even frigate can base Harrier as long they have helipad.

[Thorgrimm]

Arvln wrote:

Actually you are wrong. US Navy deploy fighter jet squadrons in Essex class. I believe that Essex and Lexington are more or less in equal size; therefore I think Spee could be use to base jets aircraft.

Actually, i was half wrong and you were all wrong. I was right that the first US jet did take off of a Midway class, but the first operational jet squadron was on the USS Saipan, a CVL.
So, Wyrm i withdraw my objection of the ship, but about the planes, i think our earlier discussion online still holds.

1946 February 15: The military prototype of the DC-6, the YC-122, makes its first flight.
July 21: During trials aboard the USS Franklin D. Roosevelt, the McDonnell FH-1 Phantom makes the first carrier take off and landing by an U.S. jet aircraft.
1948 March 23: The F3D Skyknight, Douglas' first jet-powered fighter, makes its first flight.
May:The first all- jet squadron aboard the USS Saipan is operational with McDonnell's FH-1 Phantoms.

Just in case there is any doubt, here is the beginning of the Essex upgrade list.
On 04 June 1947 the CNO approved Project 27A by which Essex-class carriers were modernized to be able to handle aircraft to 40,000 pounds and included the installation of two H-8 catapults, strengthening the flight deck and clearing it of guns, increasing elevator capacity and adding special provisions for jet aircraft such as blast deflectors. USS Oriskany (CV 34), the first of nine carriers modernized under this project, began conversion at the New York Naval Shipyard on 01 October 1947. USS Essex (CV 9) was recommissioned 16 January 1951, and on 23 August 1951 she went into combat in Korea, the first carrier to launch F2H Banshee twinjet fighters on combat missions.

http://www.boeing.com/history/mdc/chr3_post.htm
This is the site for the Fh-1s
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/48.htm
This is the site on the Saipan.

Comment on pic:
USS Saipan (CVL-48) underway at sea, with eight FH-1 Phantom jet fighters on her flight deck. The original print is dated June 1953, but the presence of FH-1s and the general rig of the ship indicate that the photograph was actually taken during the late 1940s.