American Revolution Scenario Feedback
- Thread starter sourboy
- Start date
unscratchedfoot
War is a good thing.
This is a good idea. Techs are simple: soldier upgrades, wonders, autoproducers, better ships, bigger cannon, happiness stuff... etc
To be more imaginative, make a tech which represents a breakthrough in native indian relations allowing a wonder to be made which autoproduces a native indian unit for the British or Americans. Techs don't have to be scientific; they can signify efforts in other ways like adaptation, diplomacy, industrial war footing, religious trends, etc
To be more imaginative, make a tech which represents a breakthrough in native indian relations allowing a wonder to be made which autoproduces a native indian unit for the British or Americans. Techs don't have to be scientific; they can signify efforts in other ways like adaptation, diplomacy, industrial war footing, religious trends, etc
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
El Justo
Deity
yeah...this is a good idea and i thought the same thing when i was watching the exact program.
the trick would be to find a map with the eastern seaboard of north america AND western europe.
the trick would be to find a map with the eastern seaboard of north america AND western europe.
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
If you find such a map, I could use it for 1812 as well.
Make Canada and Brittish Florida part of the Brittish Empire, not seperate locked alliances. Iroquois should be included. I know there were Indian Tribes that both helped the Americans and required military action against, throughout the war.
I would make Minutemen and Indian soldiers cheap, but not very effective, give Minutemen a slightly better defense, Indians should have more offense. Consider ATAR or two-moves.
Than there's the regular troops. Brittish would probably be the best. American could either be a later tech, or have Barracks come later, or both. American troops got much better as the war went on, and the simple militias that fired cheap shots behind a tree and than ran would never win the war.
Make Canada and Brittish Florida part of the Brittish Empire, not seperate locked alliances. Iroquois should be included. I know there were Indian Tribes that both helped the Americans and required military action against, throughout the war.
I would make Minutemen and Indian soldiers cheap, but not very effective, give Minutemen a slightly better defense, Indians should have more offense. Consider ATAR or two-moves.
Than there's the regular troops. Brittish would probably be the best. American could either be a later tech, or have Barracks come later, or both. American troops got much better as the war went on, and the simple militias that fired cheap shots behind a tree and than ran would never win the war.
Packer-Backer
Conservative Christian
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2003
- Messages
- 763
Try to find and add a German mercenary unit, Britain hired mercenaries from their allied German states for the war. Remember to include Spain, they were considered by the founding fathers along with France to be the big ally in the revolution.
El Justo
Deity
yes, the Hessians
you might have to create or customize a map
you might have to create or customize a map
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Spain declared war in Europe, but didn't send any aid to the new world.
The Hessian Mercenaries have big hats that made them look taller. Mercenary hiring was common throughout Europe.
The Hessian Mercenaries have big hats that made them look taller. Mercenary hiring was common throughout Europe.
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
@Sourboy
Have you had a chance to look the scenario I did yet?
Have you had a chance to look the scenario I did yet?
I downloaded it, but actually looked into unit creation for the last few days. It will take time to learn 3D modeling & conversion, so I think I'll stick to scenario's for now. I'll take a look at your scenario - I did notice many nice units, though, that will be great. I'm still debating on the map, but it will definately be changed.
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
Glad I could help.
I think it's going to take some time to lay it all out. A lot of it will come down to the map design (and I hate making maps). From there I can narrow down to specific Civs, and it gets easier at the unit level (though tedious).
Thundercow
Destroyer of Galaxies
I'm reading through David McCullough's biography of John Adams, so this is particularly exciting to me.
Suggestions:
Britain, Canada, and British Florida should all be one country.
The map shouldn't extend as far as the Mississippi, that would make it either insanely huge or lacking in the small details of terrain (all of the islands in Massachusett's Bay, the complex coastline of the Carolinas: both were factors in the war).
Minutemen should be mediocre, but better than militia and not dirt cheap. Minutemen were well trained volunteers, distinct from militia. The name "minutemen" comes from how they were supposed to be ready to fight in "a minute." They drilled and trained and could fight.
You might consider giving American units (or at least Minutemen and Militia) special movement abilities, like treating terrain as roads and the ability to withdraw. The latter is especially historical, because the British regulars had a hard time catching militia before they faded away (or ran like heck).
Perhaps instead of having the French, Spanish, and Indians be separate nations, involve them in another way.
For example, make techs for "Foreign Intervention" and have the tech make available wonders that would spawn French ships and soldiers, or would increase economy (loans from the Spanish and Dutch), or create Indian units (this latter could be built by both the British and the Americans).
Suggestions:
Britain, Canada, and British Florida should all be one country.
The map shouldn't extend as far as the Mississippi, that would make it either insanely huge or lacking in the small details of terrain (all of the islands in Massachusett's Bay, the complex coastline of the Carolinas: both were factors in the war).
Minutemen should be mediocre, but better than militia and not dirt cheap. Minutemen were well trained volunteers, distinct from militia. The name "minutemen" comes from how they were supposed to be ready to fight in "a minute." They drilled and trained and could fight.
You might consider giving American units (or at least Minutemen and Militia) special movement abilities, like treating terrain as roads and the ability to withdraw. The latter is especially historical, because the British regulars had a hard time catching militia before they faded away (or ran like heck).
Perhaps instead of having the French, Spanish, and Indians be separate nations, involve them in another way.
For example, make techs for "Foreign Intervention" and have the tech make available wonders that would spawn French ships and soldiers, or would increase economy (loans from the Spanish and Dutch), or create Indian units (this latter could be built by both the British and the Americans).
Hmm, very interesting. So how about a map of the east coast (SC/Florida border up to Quebec City), western border being the mountains. To the east would be the ocean and England. To keep the map reasonable, maybe reduce oceanic tiles & naval movement over the ocean. That would keep the map a nice size, and though it skews visual accuracy - hindered ocean movement would keep gameplay accurate.
I agree with the inlet rivers and bays being used in the scenario - they were essential in the war. It was also the maps of the shores and the strategic routing of troops that gave me the idea of this scenario.
I also love the idea of special buildings that produce Allied units, rather then having the actual Civs in the game.
I agree with the inlet rivers and bays being used in the scenario - they were essential in the war. It was also the maps of the shores and the strategic routing of troops that gave me the idea of this scenario.
I also love the idea of special buildings that produce Allied units, rather then having the actual Civs in the game.
Okay, here's what I'm seeing for units out of Nate's scenario & others I found in the units forum, by Civ (I've left out many, mostly because I didn't see a major difference from this core list):
America:
Cavalry
Infantry
Minutemen
Militia
(SE) Indian (attack unit)
Slaves? (need unit)
Cannon
Naval units TBD
worker
Britain:
Cavalry
Infantry
Scots
Hessian Merc
Iroquois (attack unit)
Torey
Cannon
Naval units TBD
worker
Special building from a special tech will grant indian & foreign units. Slaves may be included, and work the same way. This is debatable since there's nothing special about them other then that some slaves were forced into the army to take the place of their masters "military duty" - and I can't imagine they fought as hard as the "free man."
I need info on what types of indian units were present & their actions (I'm researching it, but if anyone happens to know off hand..), naval units in general, and any other ground unit I may have missed (Other then cavalry, was there a group of official army soldiers that could be classified outside of general infantry?).
Also, anyone know if the French actually supplied ground forces, or was it mainly naval support? Spain, as I read, did not support the American's Independence - so their declaration of war on Britain was for their own purposes (thus no aid, and no involvement in this scenario).
Last, I'm thinking the "army" unit may not be a good thing here. At the same time, many American Revolutionaries stepped up and led troops - which is exactly the purpose of the "army unit" in the game. Any thoughts on this?
NateDawg - you said you made a version of this scenario, and many units I want to use are also in yours - but you had many many more. Any reason why? Because at this point, I rather use limited cavalry & cannons, and the rest split between regular infantry and special units (depending on the side). I don't see how some units are relevent (without playing through your scenario - which I'll do when time permits). One in question is the Scots - were they like the German Hessians, or were they under English control & forced in as a regiment - what was their part?
Okay, sorry for all the questions, but I want this one to be good, accurate & fun!
America:
Cavalry
Infantry
Minutemen
Militia
(SE) Indian (attack unit)
Slaves? (need unit)
Cannon
Naval units TBD
worker
Britain:
Cavalry
Infantry
Scots
Hessian Merc
Iroquois (attack unit)
Torey
Cannon
Naval units TBD
worker
Special building from a special tech will grant indian & foreign units. Slaves may be included, and work the same way. This is debatable since there's nothing special about them other then that some slaves were forced into the army to take the place of their masters "military duty" - and I can't imagine they fought as hard as the "free man."
I need info on what types of indian units were present & their actions (I'm researching it, but if anyone happens to know off hand..), naval units in general, and any other ground unit I may have missed (Other then cavalry, was there a group of official army soldiers that could be classified outside of general infantry?).
Also, anyone know if the French actually supplied ground forces, or was it mainly naval support? Spain, as I read, did not support the American's Independence - so their declaration of war on Britain was for their own purposes (thus no aid, and no involvement in this scenario).
Last, I'm thinking the "army" unit may not be a good thing here. At the same time, many American Revolutionaries stepped up and led troops - which is exactly the purpose of the "army unit" in the game. Any thoughts on this?
NateDawg - you said you made a version of this scenario, and many units I want to use are also in yours - but you had many many more. Any reason why? Because at this point, I rather use limited cavalry & cannons, and the rest split between regular infantry and special units (depending on the side). I don't see how some units are relevent (without playing through your scenario - which I'll do when time permits). One in question is the Scots - were they like the German Hessians, or were they under English control & forced in as a regiment - what was their part?
Okay, sorry for all the questions, but I want this one to be good, accurate & fun!
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
@Sourboy
This should help with your research:
Brigade of the American Revolution
Let's see if I can answer your questions:
1. The many units:
I included so many because I wanted to give a good representation of all the different types of units that fought in the War for Independence. I'm sure you can exclude some of them to increase playability.
2. The Scots:
There were several Scottish Regiments that fought for England during that war; some still do. They include, Fraser's Highlanders, Cameron's Highlanders, and the 42nd Regt. of Foot, aka...the Black Watch or the Royal Highland Regiment. Unfortunately, they are only represented in Civ3 with a solid red tartan, which is totally inaccurate, as each regiment wore their clan's tartan. Back to the original question, after a series of several rebellions (maybe someone will make a scenario on that), the Scottish came under English rule. As such, the Highland regiments were composed both of volunteers and conscripts.
Here's a more descriptive list:
Scottish Military Historical Society
Just to let you know, I was a Revolutionary War Re-enactor for several years, so I won't steer you wrong.
This should help with your research:
Brigade of the American Revolution
Let's see if I can answer your questions:
1. The many units:
I included so many because I wanted to give a good representation of all the different types of units that fought in the War for Independence. I'm sure you can exclude some of them to increase playability.
2. The Scots:
There were several Scottish Regiments that fought for England during that war; some still do. They include, Fraser's Highlanders, Cameron's Highlanders, and the 42nd Regt. of Foot, aka...the Black Watch or the Royal Highland Regiment. Unfortunately, they are only represented in Civ3 with a solid red tartan, which is totally inaccurate, as each regiment wore their clan's tartan. Back to the original question, after a series of several rebellions (maybe someone will make a scenario on that), the Scottish came under English rule. As such, the Highland regiments were composed both of volunteers and conscripts.
Here's a more descriptive list:
Scottish Military Historical Society
Just to let you know, I was a Revolutionary War Re-enactor for several years, so I won't steer you wrong.
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
El Justo
Deity
sourboy said:
i may be able to help w/ a map if you'd like
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
Is there any chance you could make the map go far west as Detroit?
I'll admit this is a selfish request, but I might be needing it for another scenario that would use pretty much the same area as this one (Britain to United States).
I'll admit this is a selfish request, but I might be needing it for another scenario that would use pretty much the same area as this one (Britain to United States).
If the units were different in a particular way (method of fighting, weapons used, etc) I too want to incorporate that. Without having the time to play thru your scenario though, I guess I'm wondering more about the special units - like the officers & flag carriers, as opposed to the standard military units. Regardless, I really want & need to play your scenario to get the right feel...knowing the road & walking it...NateDawgNY said:
The Scots will definately be included. That's actually huge info, as the American side seemed to have an edge in unit diversity & I was struggling to find another unit for the Brits.
And I trust your opinion, there are many little things you have said that proved to me that you know what you're talking about & that your scenario is well thought out - all the more reason why I want to make time to try it before getting this one too far off the ground
That would be great! I hate making maps - you would be my heroEl Justo said:
You said you saw the same History Channel special I did (the one that inspired this scenario) so hopefully you looked at the maps shown on the program and also feel they should be the basis for the one in this scenario. I've been searching since then to find an online map that was laid out the same as those on the show, with no avail. In any case, the main thing is getting the terrain down so far that a river is shown in the scenario as at least a 1 tile wide coastal water tile (so ships can traverse it). The problem would be to get it to be used as a freshwater source. The rest isn't as critical, other then just city placement and such (not too tough).Originally I thought the Mississippi River would be the western cutoff - now I'm thinking the Appalachians - either way, it's up to El Justo at this point. If he decides to make the map, then your request is better off with him. I'm guessing the terrain detail might be a little too much for any larger land-consuming scenario though.Louis XXIV said:
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