City zone expansion ?

[M37]

here's a radical idea for city expansion
currently a city's radius is 9 sqares why not have a city that has expanding zone of controll.
I.E. with a size 10 city the city's zone would expand in another ring.

before after
xxxxx
xxx xxxxx
xcx xxcxx
xxx xxxxx
xxxxx

any thoughts

[ybbor]

what? do you know what culture does? do you mean like your first city expands?

for those who don't understand, quote him to what he means, the spacing is screwed up

[phorvath2110]

Originally Posted by M37

here's a radical idea for city expansion
currently a city's radius is 9 sqares why not have a city that has expanding zone of controll.
I.E. with a size 10 city the city's zone would expand in another ring.

before after
xxxxx
xxx xxxxx
xcx xxcxx
xxx xxxxx
xxxxx

any thoughts

I'm not sure if this is like the idea that I posted yesterday but then my post disappeared. I suggested that you start off with a main city center that can grow upto a certain size (let's suppose 8). Then if you need to grow your city beyond that size, you need to establish a new subdivision/quarter/neighbourhood right next to your city, which gets filled up with people. That neighbourhood could grow upto maybe size 3. Then you build another neighbourhood, and then another, etc... upto a maximum of may 8 neighbourhoods attached to your downtown.

So for example that may look like this...

*******
*******
*******
***D***
*******
*******
*******


* = Field
D = Downtown


Then when the Downtown grows, and you expand it would look like this....

*******
*******
***N***
***D***
*******
*******
*******

* = Field
D = Downtown (upto size 8)
E = New Neighbourhood (upto size 3)

If extra food is required to avoid starvation then farms can be added but must be connected via roads:

*****F*
*****/*
***N***
***D***
*******
*******
*******

* = Field
D = Downtown (upto size 8)
E = New Neighbourhood (upto size 3)
/ = Road
F = Farm

And if this not the same idea that you're suggesting, what do you guys think of my idea?

[Helmling]

I think when you consider the scale of the map, then that neighborhood idea becomes problematic.

I think what was originally being proposed is what Call to Power 2 did. Your city radius kept expanding so that big cities could use resources very far away.

I do think it would be nice if large modern cities didn't have to be limited to natural resources in their immediate vicinity. However, I think the addition of civil engineers in C3C mitigates that. All that really needs to be done is to make it possible to move food from one city to another like we could in Civ2. I really miss that, since I used to pump my capital up to HUGE proportions by having every city donate one food to it.

[Turner]

This isn't exactly a new idea. Back before Civ2 came out, this idea was thrown around on the net as well.

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I wouldn't mind seeing it. On the other hand, it would be a pain to implement. Plus you'd have a lot of wasted space, production wise. Now, if you could split your production box up and be building two or more things at the same time, this would be more feasable.

[ybbor]

am i the only one that realizes what he's proposing already exists in the form of culture?!?!?!?

[Fromage10x]

Well, not exactly. I expect he means that the city that expanded in this way would have direct access (ie be able to work) the land it expanded into.

[AKtionFich]

if u think a little furtehr u can link it to transport of resources, commuterspecialist(citizen avaible in other town in an radius arround hometown) and productionspecialisation like its disscuses here:http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=93403

i think hospital shell replaced by a improvment like a (railway)mainstation like we found em in every old industrial-metropole.
so if a city has a mainstation it could make neighbour cities to suburbs, which are own cities but provide workforces and resources to the metropole and benefit from entertainment and other metropole improvments.

[EddyG17]

I wish you could work the tiles out side your city area, with a penalty of course.

[Trade-peror]

This sounds somewhat similar to my Urban Sprawl idea (link in my signature), where the 21-tile grid is eliminated altogether, and culture is the essential determinant of the spread of cities. Not only that, but population would also be represented on the map, and a rapidly expanding city with insufficient culture would likely lose its fringe settlements, which might form different cities themselves. For more details, please see that link.

Anyway, I agree and would like to see the rigid and limiting 21-grid resource usage pattern replaced by something more flexible and dynamic.

[phorvath2110]

Originally Posted by ybbor

am i the only one that realizes what he's proposing already exists in the form of culture?!?!?!?

Actually it's different from culture. You can't work resources that are outside of your city area but inside your culture zone. This is very much like urban sprawl. (Although I didn't get to see it in as much detail as I liked in the previous post.)

[ybbor]

Originally Posted by phorvath2110

Actually it's different from culture. You can't work resources that are outside of your city area but inside your culture zone. This is very much like urban sprawl. (Although I didn't get to see it in as much detail as I liked in the previous post.)

you can work 20 tiles, and although the difference may be 4 more tiles in his plan, based on the way he's wording it (radical idea, expanding) i think he doesn't understand that culture expands beyond the first 9

[phorvath2110]

Originally Posted by ybbor

you can work 20 tiles, and although the difference may be 4 more tiles in his plan, based on the way he's wording it (radical idea, expanding) i think he doesn't understand that culture expands beyond the first 9

ARGH! It's not the same!

I know that culture expands beyond the city's original squares, however the workable resource area does not. That's what I'm trying to get at.

With culture, if you have a resource such as ivory outside of your city squares and you build a road to it, then you have access to that resource. However you cannot irrigate squares outside of your city's radius and expect to get food from it.

Culture would still exist in my scenario, it's just that the city center could be larger than one square, because it would part of its neighbourhoods. What the person mentioned is similar in idea except that instead of the main central city being more than one square, you would be able to build farms, irrigation and mines further out than the city center.


Let me draw a map...


*******************
*****CCCCCCCCCCC****
***CCCCCRRRRRCCCCC***
**CCCCRRRRRRRRRCCCC**
*CCCCCRRRNNNRRRCCCC**
*CCCCCRRRNNNRRRCCCC**
*CCCCCRRRRRRRRRCCCCC**
***CCCCCRRRRRCCCCCC**
*****CCCCCCCCCCC***
*******************

N = NEIGHBOURHOODS
R = City workable shield and food production radius maximum
C = City culture limit

Based on my idea the workable food production radius would be able to expand to the extent of the culture area, and the neighbourhoods would be able to expand as well. This would be a result of the urban sprawl.

Let me give another example that relates to real life:

I live in Toronto. The great cultural influence of Torontonian life extends all the way out to Mississauga, Pickering, Richmond Hill, etc... those would be "settlements" or "irrigated farms" or "towns" outside of the immediate city boundaries of Toronto, but we can still get food from the farmers living in the hinterland called Oshawa. Hence the region is called the Greater Toronto Area.

Anyone from Toronto will get the humour in the previous example

That's the idea.


If anyone still doesn't understand, please send me a private message.

[ybbor]

i know what your proposing, but that is not what M37 was, he only had one city square in both drawings, he made no mention of neighborhoods, or such, he had 1 city square in each

[phorvath2110]

Originally Posted by ybbor

i know what your proposing, but that is not what M37 was, he only had one city square in both drawings, he made no mention of neighborhoods, or such, he had 1 city square in each

That's why my idea is slightly different than his My idea would build on his by letting the city center grow through the idea of neighbourhoods. It's similar to M37's and the Urban sprawl ideas.

The basic theme seems to be a call for changes to how a city grows.

[ybbor]

this thread isn't about discussing your idea, it's about dicussing M37's ideas, go put your plan in urban sprawl, as that is realated, this is just a feature that's already in the game

you have to quote him to see what he's really talking about, it's not how it's shown, the auto-spacing-reducer screwed up his plan, your assumptions about what he means would be correct if you tried to understand it without getting rid of auto-space

[AKtionFich]

phorvath2110 is only developting an idea
like i did
that its differ to the initial one is natural.
its about the same issue, so whats wrong

[phorvath2110]

Originally Posted by AKtionFich

phorvath2110 is only developting an idea
like i did
that its differ to the initial one is natural.
its about the same issue, so whats wrong

I agree with AktionFich!

[ybbor]

READ M37's FIRST POST THROUGH QUOTES!!! it is the sane city, but shown at two different times, IN HIS PROPOSAL THERE IS ONLY ONE CITY SQUARE AT A TIME

[phorvath2110]

Originally Posted by M37

here's a radical idea for city expansion
currently a city's radius is 9 sqares why not have a city that has expanding zone of controll.
I.E. with a size 10 city the city's zone would expand in another ring.

before after
xxxxx
xxx xxxxx
xcx xxcxx
xxx xxxxx
xxxxx

any thoughts

Hey M37, would you mind clarifying what you mean. I think Ybbor and I have been arguing about this for the past week or so and I think we both have different interpretations of what you said.