Stopping an AI Civ from extinction

[Ben E Gas]

I'm playing a game as the Mayans. I was in a war with the Zulu. I started the war by building a city smack dab in the middle of Zululand. I managed to fend off their attacks on my new city for a few turns but I realized I needed help from the other civs in the area. I was in good standing with them and I had the cash to buy them off. So I payed the Persians in the North and the Iriqouis in the South to attack their neighbor, the Zulu. They fell for it and began saving my arse. They took the pressure off of my lone zululand city. I was able to build up an army and transport many knights into the area from my homeland. I managed to take a few key Zulu cities. At this time I was in a good position to end the war with the Zulu's and build up my newly aquired cities. So I forced the Zulu to pay me for a peace treaty. The Iriqouis a few turns later ended their war also. But the greedy Persians continued to fight the now desimated Zulu. My question is:
--Is there a way for me to stop the Persians from attacking the Zulu without actually going to war with the Persians? I'd like to be able to talk to the Persians and reason with them, tell them not to destroy the Zulu. After all I feel responsible for their destruction. I merely wanted to get in on the lush territory they had. Besides, at the time we had evidence that they were funding pirates that have been raiding our homeland and ships. All that is over now and I do not want my Zulu friends to be destroyed. As a last resort I will go in and fight off the Persians. If there is no way to reason with a civ, then that is something they should add in civ4. I'd like to be able to bribe the persians to stop attacking the zulu.

[Samson]

Hi,

I hope this question is serious, it has a hint of humour about it. I think the best way is try and suppost the zulu milataraly, if you do not want them captured. Do they lack any strategic resources? You could give them those. Do they have obsolete units remaining? Perhaps if you gave them money they would upgrade them. Perhaps even some milatry tech that could save the day.

Another approach, if you just want them to survive (perhaps for a UN vote?) is to gift them a usless city out of the way and safe from the persians.

If you are worried about the presians geting that lush land, why not take it off the Zulus yourself

HTH, but probly not

[Ben E Gas]

It is a serious question but yes I threw in a humorous side story such as the pirates as justification for me going to war with them.

I guess I could give them a city out of the way. I did give them gold already.
I could wipe them out like every other civ game I play, but I want them to survive in this one.

thanks for the suggestions.

[Samson]

I threw in a humorous side story such as the pirates as justification for me going to war with them.

You need justification for war? Don't you watch the news?

[Globo]

Nope I don't think you could do anything to stop the persians attacking the zulu. Before you resort to actually going to war to save your zulu 'friends' you should consider some options available for slowing a persian advance. Do the zulu have the necessary techs and resources to succesfully fight off the persians? Providing them with a few luxuries could postpone war weariness for a while.

I don't know if you can sign rop's yet. If so you could sign one with the persians for instance (if they don't have to pass trough your territory to get to the zulu of course ). I don't suppose that your zulu friends are very willing to sign one with you after your little friendly war together. Signing one with strategic civs could seriously slow the persians' advance by blocking the main roads and forcing them to take the tourist trail.

[Ben E Gas]

Originally Posted by if_only_we_were

You need justification for war? Don't you watch the news?

lol. just in my own mind.

[fuzzy_bunnies]

If you could force a ROP with the zulus and their border with the Persians isn't ginormous, you could string out a line of units separating the two civs. Since neither one is at war with you, they can't get to each other which gives the zulus time to build up defenses etc with the $$ and tech you give them.

[Ben E Gas]

fuzz,
it might be just small enough for me to do that. however, I'll need time to build the units. I think that is what I'll try to do though.

[Ben E Gas]

To give an update on those who gave me advice:

I ended up going to war with the Persians and I took three of their cities,(formerly zulu cities), and gave them back to the Zulu. They were happy but in order to get them to sign an ROP they wanted two techs and waaay too much money, so I declined the ROP with the Zulu. So I destroyed as many Persians as I could that were outside there cities. Then I forced the persians into signing a peace treaty and giving me one of there cities to appease my leader.(I had many knights in the area including a knight army, they couldn't refuse). I then withdrew all my troops as the Zulu's and Persians seem to be even for the moment. But now I have the both of them hating me. But oh well. I think the Zulu are pissed because I still hold Zimbabwea. I just couldn't give that back to them, they would have used the Zimbabwea forces to crush my 3 other cities nearby. Infact, when I first landed they did crush one of my cities but I managed to gain the upper hand and take Zimbabwea.

[Taé Shala]

All of you have forgot 1 thing:

you can put 8 units around a zulu city , making it impossible for the persians to reach it. (RoP can help here).

[Raio]

My advice:

This is the most strange thread I saw in this forum, because:
1 - You join a war campaign just because Zulu piracy and after raize them you want to save them? And call them friends? Listen yourself, you made a war!!! How do you expect they do not feel bad about you after raize them (again, in which world you live?)
2 - C3C is a logical game (as all the games). AI can not understand your desire to "save" the Zulus. Remember a war means destruction not anyelse!

Anyway, there was one more possibility to stop the Persians: pillage roads and plant forest (if you are able to do that) in neutral terrain, in order to slow the persia military.

Just a final comment: When a first read your initial thread I though "this is a joke and thanks god someone have humour".

Good games to all.
RR

[Ben E Gas]

Hey look. When I play the game I envision, in my own demented mind, that I am the real leader in real life. So yes, I may start some wars because of made up piracy and yes I may want to liberate a fake Zulu poeple and want them to like me afterwards. I know they are fake and have no idea that I was indeed trying to save their people from their corrupt government. That's the way I play. Not to win necessarilly but for my own enjoyment and imagination.

As for surrounding the zulu cities with my troops. That'd be a good Idea but I want the Zulu to be ablt to build up their roads and irrigation and all that. They would just waste their units anyway by attacking me. But the problem is solved as I posted in my previous post.

Thanks,
Ben

[Samson]

Hey look. When I play the game I envision, in my own demented mind, that I am the real leader in real life.

I kind of know what you mean. Sometimes, in my weaker moments (usually when I am ed) if feel bad, as I am my peoples god, but far from being a benevolent god I wip them to death and get them embroiled in thousand year wars with other civs, all so I can bask in the glory. Then I pull myself together and get medievil on there butt

[Ben E Gas]

Originally Posted by if_only_we_were

I kind of know what you mean. Sometimes, in my weaker moments (usually when I am ed) if feel bad, as I am my peoples god, but far from being a benevolent god I wip them to death and get them embroiled in thousand year wars with other civs, all so I can bask in the glory. Then I pull myself together and get medievil on there butt

I hear ya. I don't always play this way, but a lot of the time I do. Don't get me wrong, I get into those 1000 year wars myself, but in this cercumstance, I wanted to preserve the Zulu people. They don't deserve to die .......yet.

[Zandrew]

Originally Posted by Ben E Gas

...I don't always play this way, but a lot of the time I do...

Helping out weaker civs isn't too unusual. I've seen many posts on the subject and often do it myself. When you know you're winning anyway it makes the game more interesting. Sometimes it's strategic: when you're helping a weak civ (like the Zulus) to keep a strong civ (the Persians) from getting stronger. Other times you just feel sorry for them. Nonetheless, if you were once at war with them, even if they started it, they tend to stay furious no matter how generous you become later.

[Stid]

i only play the game to help an attacked civilization defeat the bully one but ill rarely kill a civilization off.in my europe map i declared war on the russians cos they were being scumy to the polish and austrians so i give their cities back.althought i start loads of wars when i get bored i pretend im a real NATO force or something protecting the weak. i should really get out more maybe.

[HamaticBabylon]

Originally Posted by if_only_we_were

You need justification for war? Don't you watch the news?

you are talking about Civ news!

[Ben E Gas]

Originally Posted by Stid

i only play the game to help an attacked civilization defeat the bully one but ill rarely kill a civilization off.in my europe map i declared war on the russians cos they were being scumy to the polish and austrians so i give their cities back.althought i start loads of wars when i get bored i pretend im a real NATO force or something protecting the weak. i should really get out more maybe.

Stid,
I love doing that as well. I too should get out more. lol.



On a side note:
In modern times I tend to fight for and hold as many Uranium resources as possible. Wouldn't want my neighbors to get a hold of any nuke capabilities.

[genghis_khev]

Originally Posted by Ben E Gas

Hey look. When I play the game I envision, in my own demented mind, that I am the real leader in real life.

Originally Posted by if_only_we_were

I am my peoples god, but far from being a benevolent god I wip them to death and get them embroiled in thousand year wars with other civs

Me too!!!!! (I though I was just being a bit sad but....) I've convince myself that (in civ terms) I am some kind of demi god hence why I am immune to the ravages of time (imagine how wrinkly you'd be after 6100 years!). In addition I name all my cities after my mates (who are city mayors: Rikkonia / Duncanton / Annegiers / Etc) who therefore must also be un-aging demigods as well as all AI Civ Leaders (What is this? Ancient Greece!?!?!).

As for the initial idea of the thread:

Yes, there should definitely be some way of stopping an inter AI war other than direct military involvemnent.

Could be a groovy Civ 4 option for the UN or some other wonder / tech. You could levy fines / international embargos / peace keeping duties (invaders within defenders borders are fair game!) / all out war (imagine a sliding scale with voting at each level / vetos / behind the scenes blackmail... AAAHHHhh! I'm all sweaty now!)).

Would also give the player (and AI civs) a reason to keep their international reputations sweet (I usually go for Domination / Conquest victory so international rep in later game is usually completely irrelevant!). Well?

[zerksees]

I too have kept other civs alive - though not for the altruistic reasons you mention.

If I want a UN win, I basically play a conquest game but leave two AI's with some cities. In my last attempt at this I gave the Zulu a city deep in my territory and blocked the enemy from attacking them right before they were obliterated. For whatever reason they were weak and never had a war with me, so I wanted Shaka to vote for me come UN time. France would be my opponent, so I did not care what they thought of me. Joan lived in a single city for a long time -stuck at size 2. A few turns before the vote I plopped a couple new cities and gave them to her so she would be the second largest civ. Of course I gifted Shaka every conceivable luxury. It worked like a champ. You can see the result in the high score HOF - emperor small map diplo victory.