Long Winded Changes (LWC) Mod

NEW AS OF 02/02/2002: Long Winded Changes, Early Release Preview 5 has been RELEASED!

Download it here: LWC Mod

From the changelog:

-NEW VERSION: Long Winded Changes, Early Release Preview 5 (ERP5). Changes the bonus resources provided by most resources (all changes are increases), tweaked the disappearance probability on Horses and Iron to make them 'move' less, changed Fruit to Bananas, fixed all the building bugs (including not being able to build some, and the coastal defense installations), minorly tweaked some unit costs, tinkered with a few naval unit abilitys (added Blitz to some...), and a few more minor changes.

The file is now called "LWC Mod ERP5.bic" to avoid confusing people. Load it as a Scenario to play with the changes. You must start a new game to see the changes, you can't just change the file name and load a saved game.

This version is a reccommended update for all users, and will not break (or effect) any old saved games. You will however need to reinstall the addon packs (like extra unit animations and non-labeled resource file), though those addon packs have not changed for this version.

NOTE: When unzipping the mod remember to OVERWRITE all the files it asks you about, or the mod may not install properly!

Click to expand...

Note: This thread is quite long and most of the replys are old outdated versions (like 0.1.1). They're still worth the read, but to skip to comments made after the release of ERP5 skip to the following: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=176848&t=5064#post176848


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An updated modified LWC combat calculator is also available online at the website, and comes along with the mod in the LWC Mod directory. It's definately worth a look, and a quick reference to some defensive bonus changes made in the LWC mod.


Optional Addons: Visit the LWC website at lwc.realmofgaming.net to get the new unit animation addons, a building icon addon (had to remove it from the main download because it was too big, but you don't HAVE to have it), and a non-labeled resource.pcx file (for those who don't like the resource labels).

The website is updated, as well as the download, so here's the short form:

-NEW VERSION: Long Winded Changes, Early Release Preview 4. Oh so many changes, oh so little time. Basically I almost totally re-did all the units (cost, requirements, attack, defense, ZoC, etC), changed UU for America and England to more functional and useful units (the Minuteman and Longbowman, respectively), addition of multiple naval units (and changes of existing ones), 7 buildings (including a small wonder or two), some changes to the tech tree, tweaking of tech costs, changes to multiple wonders, a horde of small bug fixes, largely updated civilopedia, a fixed tech tree (display should be about perfect now), and a rearranged unit list.

To play you will need to load LWC Mod ERP4.bic as a scenario, rather than LWC Mod.bic.


All users should upgrade to this new version, because it's just that good!

And a request:

-REQUEST: EMAIL ME YOUR LWC SAVED GAMES! Zip 'em up, tell me what version of the LWC mod it is, and make them an attachment to an email to aemuli@yahoo.com

This goes for ALL versions, well into the future until I tell people to stop doing it!

Throughout the course of the game, if you wouldn't mind, save the games at the begining, middle, and end of each age. Exclude only the early and middle ancient age, as I have no need for those. I most desire saves from the late Middle Ages on, and personally prefer those from the difficulty levels of Regent or Monarch. However, I want the other ones too

This may also turn into a unique feature of the LWC mod later on, because when I get a good solid version of the LWC that everyone can play for multiple days/weeks I will request people send in some saves, which I can play around with and turn into a special kind of Scenario!

I'm not sure exactly why, but playing a game someone else has already started is really quite enjoyable, and I find I can learn alot from it (and I'm sure others can too). I have many, many, many ideas for this, but for now I want the saves strictly for testing. Most of the LWC changes take effect towards the end of the middle ages, and I don't want to have to play all the way from the begining just to get there and decide something should be tweaked

Oh, and you don't have to be a really good player either, or even have been playing Civ3 that long! Behind or ahead, good or bad strategies, it doesn't matter to me!



Enjoy!


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Check out the changes.txt file from the LWC website (also included with the mod itself) for a full list of all non-unit changes (I haven't documented the units because they will be changed so much, and they've already all been changed alot). Here are some highlights:

-Totally changed unit combat system, which makes new units superior to old ones without allowing a slightly more advanced Civ to crush a neighbor who's behind in research. War is now also more profitable, but also more dangerous, as Attack values go up for Offensive units while their Defense values have gone down. Watch out for the counter-attack!

-Militaristic, Expansionist, and Scientific traits have been improved to bring them more inline with the other 3 traits.

-27+ NEW Units!

-5 NEW Technologys!

-10+ NEW City Improvements!

-4+ NEW Small Wonders!

-2 NEW Resources (Oasis and Fruit)!

-Barbarians aren't such pushovers any more. You'll have to earn that pillaged gold, and protect your treasury and people!

-And well over 120 OTHER game-improving rule changes!


Check the LWC Website for various information and optional add-ons.

HOW TO INSTALL: Unzip the files into your Civilization III directory. The default is C:\Program Files\Infogrames Interactive\Civilization III, but if you choose another spot then be sure to unzip it there. So long as you do not use PKUNZIP, which ignores the paths set in the zip file. Any other unzipping program that uses the path variable set in the zip file (such as WinZIP, WinRAR, WinACE, et al) will work just fine.

If inside your Civilization III folder (or whatever you named it) you find a folder named "LWC Mod", and in your Scenarios folder you find a .bic filed with "LWC" in the name, then you've done it right.


-NOTE: The AI is capable of using and taking advantage of all changes. Any changes found that the AI can't use will probably be removed.



Be sure to thank the wonderful Kolyana for the web space/bandwidth

Two words: Lavish, Praise.



And as always, I welcome any and all feedback!

Ive been watching your thread and am very excited to start a game with your adjustments. I think it will makie it alot more enjoyable expirence. Could you please post what buildings you flagged for corruption, it would be appreciated. Will post another reply when i get a game goijng and see how things work out.
thanks again

Reame.txt is available from the website.


First version removed after 45 downloads.
Second version removed after 350 downloads.
Third version removed after 262 downloads.
Fourth version removed after 368 downloads.

Here is my current proposed changes for version 0.1.1, so tell me what you think of whether they should be in the next version or not:

-Palace now has 4 Bombard Defense and gives a 25% bonus to defense. 2 defense and 10% bonus was almost entirely unnoticable, so I had to bump it up a bit.

-Aluminum now has been raised up to 160 from 150 previously in this mod. It now has the same commonality as Iron and Horses, though it should still be more common I'll just leave like this. I've considered removing aluminum from the most modern units simulating how common Aluminum has become, which is the same thing the game does with Saltpeter (explained on the Rifleman's entry in the Civilopedia). But I figure the Spaceship is a game-ender so it should require all the resources it does (Aluminum, Uranium, and Rubber) for gameplay reasons...so I'm leaving it alone. It will now appear in the amount 2 for every player, but not every player will necessarily be near a deposit.

-Rubber now has 130 appearance up from 120. Oil has 120 and I figure rubber should be a little more common, but not much, so this does it. You probably won't even notice a difference, but as rubber is needed for some important units and the Spaceship it should be a weensy bit more common.

-Settlers can now Clear Forests and Jungles. The main use is so you can send off a settler and it can clear out a jungle/forest on it's own so it can build a city there. Seems reasonable to me.

-Swordsman, Roman Legions, and Persian Immortals can now Clear Jungles. They do have swords, don't they? They cannot, however, clear Forests, so you can't use them for logging. I gave the special units the ability because they replace the Swordsman, and it makes sense that they both have rather tough slicing weapons, which should be able to cut through trees anyway. The Romans had builders and architects in their ranks anyway, but I've decided not to allow them to build Forts.

Have you noticed that I hate jungles?

Great please do, I love it.

Especially does changes to the units so they can also chop down trees etc etc.

Please tell me when I could download does new changes.

Good job on the changes. Personally I have to wait untill November 19:th before I can play Civ3. So that sucks. Have been following the progress here and on civ3.com for a loooooooong time now.

I´m a bit, well a large bit, surprised that you and lots more have to make changes to the game, ALLREADY!!!?!?!?

This is outrageous. How can mr. Meier and Co. make a game that looks like this???

I really hope that my first experience will be good (not hoping for fantastic or "best-ever" anymore). However, when I see guys (and gals) like yourself post these downloads I get little calm. So thanx alot!

NEW VERSION!

Here are the changes:

11/12/01:

-Palace now has 4 Bombard Defense and gives a 25% bonus to defense. 2 defense and 10% bonus was almost entirely unnoticable, so I had to bump it up a bit.

-Aluminum now has been raised up to 160 from 150 previously in this mod. It now has the same commonality as Iron and Horses, though it should still be more common I'll just leave like this. I've considered removing aluminum from the most modern units simulating how common Aluminum has become, which is the same thing the game does with Saltpeter (explained on the Rifleman's entry in the Civilopedia). But I figure the Spaceship is a game-ender so it should require all the resources it does (Aluminum, Uranium, and Rubber) for gameplay reasons...so I'm leaving it alone. It will now appear in the amount 2 for every player, but not every player will necessarily be near a deposit.

-Rubber now has 130 appearance up from 120. Oil has 120 and I figure rubber should be a little more common, but not much, so this does it. You probably won't even notice a difference, but as rubber is needed for some important units and the Spaceship it should be a weensy bit more common.

-Settlers can now Clear Forests and Jungles. The main use is so you can send off a settler and it can clear out a jungle/forest on it's own so it can build a city there. Seems reasonable to me.

-Swordsman, Roman Legions, and Persian Immortals can now Clear Jungles. They do have swords, don't they? They cannot, however, clear Forests, so you can't use them for logging. I gave the special units the ability because they replace the Swordsman, and it makes sense that they both have rather tough slicing weapons, which should be able to cut through trees anyway. The Romans had builders and architects in their ranks anyway, but I've decided not to allow them to build Forts.

Have you noticed that I hate jungles?

11/13/01:

-BUG FIX: Somehow Barracks got flagged with -2 culture. While an interesting idea it was NOT intended and has been fixed. Barracks now correctly produce 0 culture.

-Factorys and Manufacturing Plant now produce -2 culture each. -1 was just too small to be noticable.

-Coal Plants and the Iron Works small wonder now produce -3 culture, up from -2 culture. A little mroe noticable, but it probably isn't a big deal.

-Recycling Plants now produce -2 pollution.

-Mass Transit now produces -1 pollution. With the above change it might help with pollution a little bit.

More changes may be needed to play with pollution a little, but probably the best is to somehow allow a pollution reducing improvement earlier on. Will have to wait until new improvements can be added, however.


You can download the new version in the first post in this thread.

Plutark,

I like these changes you've made, but I'd like to make one small suggestion. You've changed the privateer up to 2/1/3 which might be a mistake. Here's why; the great thing about privateers is, they don't carry a nation's flag. So, you can cut down another country's navy and not have the blame placed on you.
To go along with such cloak-and-dagger, there had to be something to balance it out and that caveat was the weak attack.
I use the privateers in teams of 3 or more. Many times I'll lose two of them, but I do succeed in knocking out the enemy and don't have the repercussion of war.
Just my two cents.
Keep up the good work!

When you build a city on forest/jungle it is automatically cleared, no need to clear it manually first.
Other than that most of the changes sound good, I will try the mod after I finish my current game.

Looks great; I wonder if mod'ers will come up with a master mod much like the one over at the Europa forum.

One question though, do you know that settlers can already settle jungle and forest (and hills) with the same effect as settling on grassland? Or did you intend that they clear an area around the city site before settling?

Thanks,
Will

Great changes, for the most part.

A word about resource scarcity, though. While it's frustrating to not have access to a given resource (just try defending against tanks without rubber), I believe that's a large point of the game. If you don't have it, you have to trade for it. (Or if you can't trade for it, you have to take it, which may or may not be an option depending on what resource you're missing...)

With the modern resource dependencies, attacking/defending resources becomes a strategic necessity, which adds a whole new flavor to the game. It's much more interesting to knock out your enemy's supply to rubber, for instance, before launching a massive assault. Making resources readily available defeats their purpose.

My two cents.

A) I just realized today that forests/jungles are auto-cleared when you build a city. The strategy guide was wrong there, lol.

But I figure now they can also clear the area around the city. But frankly, I doubt it's a feature that will ever be used. I'm going to go ahead and remove it if for no other reason than not to confuse the AI.

B) I've moved rubber back to where it was at 120. Aluminum stays as it was for many reasons, but removing rubber from infantry was enough of a change to rubber.

But I will be removing uranium from the AEGIS, but that's just because the AEGIS' aren't actually nuclear. More info on that in the next version


Russiophile: I agree and the Privateer is a weakened version of the Frigate, but with the upgrate to Frigate if nothing else the Privateer was due for a +1 attack. 1 attack was just too small to be reasonable.

However, I relooked at the unit now that you mentioned it and decided to increase it's cos to 7 from 6. I thought it was more expensive, but I was wrong

That should balance things up nicely.

Current changes for the next version, up for debate. I gotta go sleep

Here they are so far:


-AEGIS Cruiser no longer requires Uranium. Through multiple sources, and especially through the information from [currently held till I get the names they want used] who were extremely helpful, I have found that indeed AEGIS Cruisers are not nuclear powered. They have extremely big gas turbines, but not reactors. I have considered giving it 6 movement as part of an increase in movement I'm thinking of giving modern naval units. Depending on the results of my current experimentation it may be part of a much larger improvement of naval warfare. However I will leave it as-is until new units can be added that ensure balance.

-Radar Artillery now has 2 movement. This unit is surely self-propelled, and should obviously be faster than a catapult.

-Rubber is now back to 120 from my previous change to 130. Rubber is naturally rare and should just be left alone.

-Nuclear Submarine now can carry 2 missles.

-Settlers are back to their default, no longer clearing forests or jungles. It turns out that they automatically clear the tile when a city is built. Go figure. Another reason strategy guides are wastes of money.

-Privateers now cost 7 instead of 6. I had assumed they already were differing in cost, but assuming makes and ass out of u and mi after all. This should ensure they are balanced out with other ships.

-ISSUE: Pottery is currently listed as a prerequisite for Map Making, which allows the Harbor, Galley, Great Lighthouse, and world map trading. Should it really be a prereq? I'd love to hear reasons why it should or shouldn't be.

-WOOHOO!: Thanks to my recently aquired ability to Add various things to the game, I will be doing so now. Now we be havin' some REAL fun!

-Added Unit: The Coracle is now available with no prerequisite, costs 2 to build, has 1/1/2, can carry 1 unit, and upgrades to the Galley.

-The Galley no longer sinks in the Sea. Still goes into the drink in oceans, though.

-The Caravel now has 4 movement, up from 3 previously. With stats like 1/1/4 and carrying 3 units, it's not exactly a Super Unit. (I will be introducing the concept of the Super Unit at a later date. Suffice it to say that now you too can attempt to construct a Bismark/Yamato)

I see that Forgotten Palace changes its requirement to 5 Temples! It is not very good.

However, I'm posting this to let everyone know that this next one will be BIG. BIG my friends. Here's a teaser of what is to come:

-Comes with an auto-installer so you don't even have to navigate you're computer's directorys.

-Adds more than 8+ units including the Mercenary unit (think "Privateer on land"), an ancient age warship, a middle-industrial age warship, 3 modern age ships which replace their industrial age ancestors, 2 totally new modern submarines, 1 totally new modern ship, and a new unit called the "Atomic Bomb"! (in the late industrial age, where it should be!) And maybe even more...

-Totally smoothes out, balances, improves, and greatly increases the importance of naval units throughout the entire game. Being able to ignore water units would be a very unwise move.

-At least 1 new non-government technology.

-At least 2 new governments which are not present in ANY other mod (one in the late middle ages, the other in the late industrial ages), along with 2 new technologys to go along with it.

-At least 1 new wonder (in the ancient age).

-At least 2 new city improvements.

-Changes land-based bombardment units to be more useful at certain points in the game.

-1 new ground unit in the ancient age which introduces a totally new concept for new units to the game.

-2 new resources. One is a bonus resource, and the other a special very rare strategic resource.


And that's just the stuff I have thought up today!

Yes my friends, the LWC mod will be the ultimate Civ3 mod.



Note: "Good lord willin' and the creak don't rise" I will update this mod when the patch comes out should it be neccessary, and do it as soon as possible after it so you can take full advantage of anything Firaxis may fix/change.

A small idea...
Maybe making the swormen upgradeable to either musketman or rifleman. Dunno about the musketman because the sworman actually has better attack rating than it, but the rifleman should be a good idea...

SkidiWili: I was going to try doing that today, but then I noticed that the swordsman and longbowman both happen to be Offense units, while the next offensive footsoldier unit is the Marine. It would be a bit screwy for the AI if I had an offensive unit turn into a defensive unit when upgraded, so instead I am considering adding an offensive infantry unit.

I'm strongly considering making it the Partisan

i noticed a "bug" in that patch of yours, the patch rawks tho.

when you made palace/forbidden palace(?) work as aqueduct you cant build those in the cities you have aqueduct. So you need to make those in size <6 towns so it really is a major pain in the ass if you'd wanna move your capital from, lets say, ocean side to deeper into the continent to eliminate some corruption. This might be just some weird bug the game generated in that specific game, havent tried it in other games tho.

for that offencive infantry, maybe introduce the infamous ski-squads? would rawk for blitzing..

skaut: Yup, that was a bug I noticed in the first version of the mod. The current one is the third version, which fixes that particular little bug.

It's an annoying "feature" that, for instance, automatically removes Aqueduct from the possible building lists in citys that already have access to fresh water. Ah well, it was a good idea while it lasted...even though it did only last through 1 version

Here are some suggested changes to upgrade paths that I am unhappy with in base game.

Swordsman should be able to be upgraded to Infantry.
Longbowman should be able to be upgraded to Infantry.
Cavalry should be able to be upgraded to Mechanized Infantry.
Ironclads should be able to be upgraded to Destroyers.


Also, in your suggested patch, a Manufacturing Facility should create "less" pollution than a Factory. I work for a Manufacturing Company and modern ones today, certainly create less pollution than factories from the 40s, 50s & 60s. Especially with all of the new EPA laws that have to be followed now.

Otherwise, I like many of your changes.