Ask an atheist (the second coming)

[peter grimes]

I don't consider 'what is truth' to be a cosmological question.

A cosmological question is something like 'How many earthlike planets are there in the universe?' or 'what is dark energy' or 'where is did all the antimatter go?'

"What is truth" is, in my little opinion, a philosophical question. It's not very interesting to me (maybe it should be, but I'd have to read a bunch of philosophy... we only have a diminishing amount of time on this earth ), but it's probably interesting to some other atheists here.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

What are your thoughts on the mind-boggling subject known as reality then?

Oh boy. I'm going to cop-out here and direct you to the Horizon special; "what is reality": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh_c7v0fijU&feature=related (part 1, other parts also to be found there)

The best part of that is when they ask the boffins the simple question: "What is reality?".

 

[Winner]

Well, what I meant was, a lot of people are atheists. Doesn't mean all of them can satisfactorily answer the more complicated questions that are related to the topic (= which in practice means mostly debunking religious myths and pseudo-arguments ).

So, who's the boss here? I didn't know you were big on debating these finer points, Ziggy.

 

[Artifis]

That isn't cosmological. It's philosophical - though, granted, modern physics is so fundamental that such issues seens to overlap a little.

I don't consider 'what is truth' to be a cosmological question.

I was taking metaphorical liberties with the word. I used "cosmological" because the question opens so many infinite vistas which stretch into endless space. Call it the use of vivid imagery on my part.

Oh boy. I'm going to cop-out here and direct you to the Horizon special; "what is reality": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh_c7v0fijU&feature=related (part 1, other parts also to be found there)

The best part of that is when they ask the boffins the simple question: "What is reality?".

I'm-a gonna watch that over the weekend.. I just got through some philosophical material today and I'm not sure my brain can handle much more. Looks interesting though, as anything the BBC broadcasts should be.

 

[FredLC]

Eh! The problem of lack of authority is exactly the reason why I never really posted in an "ask an atheist" thread before, though I suppose answering here is no different than answering in any of the generic religious threads we get ever so often.

Anyway, for the sake of novelty, perhaps we should drop a question from atheists to other atheists? I consider it very hard to come up with an engaging question, as atheism is so darn internally consistent, I personally can't do it, but perhaps someone else can come up with something a little less anecdotal than "how did you became an atheist?" or "how do you cope with sad events?", or less insulting/condescending than "where does morality comes from?".

That is because most of the questions ever addressed to atheists either have nothing to do with the single uniting premise (that there is no special dispensation in the coming to be of the universe, but rather, a mere interaction of matter and the forces of nature) - like "how do you explain beauty", or "how did my *relative* got cured from *disease* if doctors said it wouldn't happen" - or they assume aprioristically the existence/need for a god - like "would you take away the comfort of billions?" or " justify the fine tuning of the universal constants without a creator".

So the boundaries for a truly engaging question would have to be: a) the idea that there is no "special intervention" of any sort in the creation or evolution of reality (AKA - there is no God), and that such premise is pertinent to the question per se. As often said by philosophers, the hardest part commonly is not to arrive at answers, but to formulate the right question!

I can't come up with such question - or couldn't so far, if I manage to, I'll post - but I openly ask others if anyone can come up with such line of questioning. There is one I'd love to give a shot at answering...

Regards .

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So, who's the boss here?

It's total anarchy here.

I didn't know you were big on debating these finer points, Ziggy.

Well, for one, atheism is the easiest thing to defend in the world. Second, I grew up in a religious environment so I've always been interested in theism and atheism.

 

[FredLC]

I was taking metaphorical liberties with the word. I used "cosmological" because the question opens so many infinite vistas which stretch into endless space. Call it the use of vivid imagery on my part.

Fair enough.

I'm-a gonna watch that over the weekend.. I just got through some philosophical material today and I'm not sure my brain can handle much more. Looks interesting though, as anything the BBC broadcasts should be.

I heartly recommend the NOVA documentary The Elegant Universe. Actually, I would recommend the book as well, though it's a much more demanding material than the documentary would lead one to think, specially if you dare read the footnotes.

Regards .

 

[Winner]

It's total anarchy here.

Damn hippies...

Well, for one, atheism is the easiest thing to defend in the world. Second, I grew up in a religious environment so I've always been interested in theism and atheism.

But defending it in a way a religious person will understand is a bit more difficult. But anyway, keep up the good work.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It isn't that hard really. Mostly because most theist are also atheists

Looks very interesting FredLC, I'll be sure to check out the docu. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/about.html) But is the book readable for non-mathematicians?

 

[Leoreth]

Eh! The problem of lack of authority is exactly the reason why I never really posted in an "ask an atheist" thread before, though I suppose answering here is no different than answering in any of the generic religious threads we get ever so often.

Anyway, for the sake of novelty, perhaps we should drop a question from atheists to other atheists? I consider it very hard to come up with an engaging question, as atheism is so darn internally consistent, I personally can't do it, but perhaps someone else can come up with something a little less anecdotal than "how did you became an atheist?" or "how do you cope with sad events?", or less insulting/condescending than "where does morality comes from?".

That is because most of the questions ever addressed to atheists either have nothing to do with the single uniting premise (that there is no special dispensation in the coming to be of the universe, but rather, a mere interaction of matter and the forces of nature) - like "how do you explain beauty", or "how did my *relative* got cured from *disease* if doctors said it wouldn't happen" - or they assume aprioristically the existence/need for a god - like "would you take away the comfort of billions?" or " justify the fine tuning of the universal constants without a creator".

So the boundaries for a truly engaging question would have to be: a) the idea that there is no "special intervention" of any sort in the creation or evolution of reality (AKA - there is no God), and that such premise is pertinent to the question per se. As often said by philosophers, the hardest part commonly is not to arrive at answers, but to formulate the right question!

I can't come up with such question - or couldn't so far, if I manage to, I'll post - but I openly ask others if anyone can come up with such line of questioning. There is one I'd love to give a shot at answering...

Regards .

Good points. Personally I see no problem in discussing philosophical questions many people answer with religion here as well, under the premise that there is no God.

 

[FredLC]

Looks very interesting FredLC, I'll be sure to check out the docu. (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/about.html) But is the book readable for non-mathematicians?

Perfectly readable. I read it and understood it, and I'm no mathematician by any strech of imagination. Granted, it's a thought read. My father, who is much better at math than me (I'm a lawyer, he is an engineer) had more problems with the book than I, on account of the level of abstraction required, especially in the latter chapters (that handle cutting edge aspects of string theory). Nevertheless, you are bound to come out of the experience with a better understand of relativity and quantum mechanics.

I personally achieved my goal with that reading, which was comprehending what was the abstraction Einstein used to ever conceive the notion that space-time dimensions are a colloidal structure that can be warped by gravity. Before looking into the steps he took, such conceptual leap seemed miraculous to me... now I toned it down to merely mind-boggling.

Regards .

 

[bhsup]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say you're wrong and God exists. What would you say to God after you die?

 

[bathsheba666]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say you're wrong and God exists. What would you say to God after you die?

"You know, you'll really have to learn to do better than that."

If she's rational, it might prompt an interesting and long discussion.
If she's a dick, who knows?

 

[bhsup]

Uh, better at what? I'm honestly curious and this is the "ask an atheist" thread so I'm asking... sorry if the question bugged you.

 

[Artifis]

^ I assume it'll be "better at providing us with proof", or something along those lines.

 

[bathsheba666]

Uh, better at what? I'm honestly curious and this is the "ask an atheist" thread so I'm asking... sorry if the question bugged you.

The question didn't bug me at all.

Not sure if you understood that my comment was not directed at you,
but was the answer to your question.

 

[IglooDame]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say you're wrong and God exists. What would you say to God after you die?

"Is anyone winning Pascal's wager?"

Okay, okay. More seriously: "My aunt, who was one of Your most devout and kind-hearted believers, passed away after two decades of chronic pain and sickness, but my evil selfish atheist uncle died in his sleep after a long comfortable life. Why?"

 

[El_Machinae]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say you're wrong and God exists. What would you say to God after you die?

"So ... cold ... death ... imminent. Damnit, I was hoping to live forever. Stupid unforeseen events. I tried my ... best ... hope the future is ... better ... So, cold ... can't see

"Begin liquid nitrogen flush."
"Cryogenic storage beginning"

[Fade to Black]

[Fade to White]

"What the? Heaven ?!?! Holy cow, I was wrong! This is awesome, I have so many questions!"

HOLY COW? YOU DARE BLASPHEME? TO HELL WITH YOU!

"Aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!"

Fwoosh

[scene]

 

[FredLC]

Just as a hypothetical, let's say you're wrong and God exists. What would you say to God after you die?

I'd quote Bertrand Russel's answer: "My lord, you hadn't given enough evidence".

Of course, the cynical reply to the one questioning this is: what if you die and found out that you were praying to the wrong God? Maybe mighty Horus couldn't care less about nonbelievers, but is keen to send fans of Yahweh to the egyptian hell pit...

Regards .

 

[bhsup]

The question didn't bug me at all.

Not sure if you understood that my comment was not directed at you,
but was the answer to your question.

Boy, I feel kinda stupid now!

EDIT@El Mac: That' what you get for invading Aman!