August Patch (1.0.1.383) is out!

[Tamed]

Where are my MP fixes?!

 

[Martin Alvito]

Growth is never a problem for me when I go wide. My growth in wide games is never limited by food, but by happiness. The boosts of the Tradition finisher get a huge slash when you're in unhappiness.

Doesn't matter; +2 translates to another Hill that you can sustain working in every city. You can never have enough .

i don't know what the right move is, but i do know it isn't two workers. i'm not convinced all wonders have to be worth building.

Soren Johnson was right about the essence of Civ in the CiV manual introduction; the more meaningful choices we have, the better the game is. I'd argue that in an ideal balance situation no Wonder is universally worth building, but all Wonders are situationally worth building.

Hagia Sophia is clearly imbalanced right now, because you should choose to build it in every game irrespective of your strategy.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

I would have preferred improvements to the diplomatic AI but at least the balance changes are nice. Four of the weakest policies are improved.
A actually still open many games with Tradition for early border expansion with Legalism and to alleviate my early money and happiness problems with Monarchy and I'll probably go for an early Tradition finisher after the patch. Four extra food and a 25% growth bonus in the capital FTW.
It's also good to see that Brandenburg gate is now more than the poor man's Taj Mahal, Seaports are worth building again and Trade Unions isn't just a useless but sadly necessary stepping stone to Mercantilism and Protectionism. Not sure about the Pyramids though. You'll have to build them really early to make good use of them and the opportunity cost might still be too high.

 

[isthmus]

what with the korea DLC coming out soon I had actually expected some gameplay change relating to it - mainly naval based considering the defensive nature of their turtle boat UU... currently navies aren't that great, I can't help thinking that a boost to blockades (maybe more economic penalties + not allowing cities to attack ships) and an change to AI to reflect this would be suitable to improve underrated naval-based civs. This is probably a larger problem in general but this might have been an opportune time to implement a naval fix.

reducing the bias to sneak attack is a welcome change. Whilst I liked that a "friendship" could be overturned if you didn't keep your military strength up to speed with neighbours, I felt that the DoW from the more trustworthy "friends" occured a little bit too often.

 

[jtb1127]

meh

it looks half assed to me.

Agreed. I'm really thrilled that we're still patching up the game.

 

[turboraton]

Yay nice little patch, good work Firaxis!

 

[danieladler]

Hopefully this is just a fraction of the big multiplayer patch we are all waiting for. Turnbased play in multiplayer would be nice....SINCE IT IS A CIV GAME FFS!!! WHAT THE <snip> ARE THE DEVS THINKING!!?? Eeehum....sorry about that *cough cough*

Moderator Action: Watch the language, please.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Tabarnak]

It's a step in the right direction for the mp community. Constant oos reloading is annoying. At least they get rid of that.

 

[Antarion]

i often build pyramids in MP if playin egypt. u can be sure you will not loose them most the time, cose noone else i building them and its a free citizienship bonus. in addition +1 engineer point and culture is not that bad early on. after the patch who will ever build a single worker if he can try to get 2 workers plus the bonus for the same price as two normal workers?

 

[fat_tonle]

Nothing to diplomacy.... hardly anything of note to the Tactical AI. Okay now generals are protected and units may actually prioritize nearby targets??? Whoopdee-do.

I still can't get over the fact that two AI's can DoW me and sandwich me completely, only to be at war with each other. It's like I have to provoke more DoW's because I can't hold off the sheer number of enemies without them all killing each other. Meanwhile I am just bombarding and sitting tight while no one pillages. Not even the Danes...

It's getting to be a joke some of these games. To the developers, what do you not understand about WAR WEARINESS, 4000+ year wars, and AI's that kill each other when they have mutal enemies? CiV has been reduced to a total war game... RTS levels... what a joke.

 

[ArcaneSeraph]

Most of the changes look very good. I'm pleased with them beefing up a few rather useless policies. The new landed elite isn't a must have but it isn't just dead weight on the road to the finisher as before. Commerce is better than before... probably still not enough... but it's moving in the right direction.

The pyramids are actually interesting. I don't really see them as being useful for a liberty path... and if you go for them and miss them it's absolutely devastating for sure. However for tradition + aristocracy starts they might just be an option.

Some basic numbers:

2 workers = 140
Pyramids = 185
Pyramids with aristocracy = 160
Pyramids with aristocracy + marble = 142
Pyramids with aristocracy + egypt = 137
Pyramids with aristocracy + marble + egypt = 123

Considering you also get a GE point (might make up for that lost GE if you go tradition instead of liberty) and you also get that 25% boost... it just might be worth it under the right conditions. I'll be running some experiments in my games at least once it is out.

 

[Dark_Jedi06]

I'm sure these aren't the complete patch notes, in the past Greg has updated notes like this multiple times before the actual release, so I'm sure more will be added to the list. Considering there is no ETA there is still plenty of time for other fixes to be announced.

 

[_hero_]

Doesn't matter; +2 translates to another Hill that you can sustain working in every city. You can never have enough .

That +2 food only matters if you would otherwise be at 0 food. If happiness is holding you back and you're trading off +2 food for an extra citizen in each city like you'd have with Liberty, then you've cancelled it out right there. That extra citizen can work a hill just as easily as one less citizen can with the +2 food, but now you're getting more beakers and the additional resources from the non-hill tile you gained.

Sorry but +1 pop>+2 food for everything but production and equal for production when food is not scarce.

 

[ArcaneSeraph]

That +2 food only matters if you would otherwise be at 0 food. If happiness is holding you back and you're trading off +2 food for an extra citizen in each city like you'd have with Liberty, then you've cancelled it out right there. That extra citizen can work a hill just as easily as one less citizen can with the +2 food, but now you're getting more beakers and the additional resources from the non-hill tile you gained.

Sorry but +1 pop>+2 food for everything but production and equal for production when food is not scarce.

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious but why would liberty have an extra citizen in each city?

In my experience tradition tends to provide more happiness than liberty does and hence therefore can have more citizens. Liberty's bonuses are in the rapid start genre... not in the happiness genre.

 

[Roxlimn]

ArcaneSeraph:

I've actually been playing some games working with Pyramids. They seemed already okay before. the caveat is that I'm not selling my resources to AI, so hooking them up extra-early doesn't give my any benefit over the tile improvement - and I have to pay for tile maintenance even if I don't have the pop to work them.

Between the +25% worker speed and +2 Workers, Pyramid is looking a little too strong.

 

[Martin Alvito]

That +2 food only matters if you would otherwise be at 0 food. If happiness is holding you back and you're trading off +2 food for an extra citizen in each city like you'd have with Liberty, then you've cancelled it out right there. That extra citizen can work a hill just as easily as one less citizen can with the +2 food, but now you're getting more beakers and the additional resources from the non-hill tile you gained.

*sigh*

I can more or less summarize the problem this way: if you can't tile swap down to zero for more , you really should place cities better. The only exception is if you get one of those monster grassland cities that has +/- ten luxuries, Cows, Horses, Sheep and Stone/Marble. But if you get one of those, you need to slap up Notre Dame with the Liberty GE and you need to bend over backwards to feed it .

Sorry but +1 pop>+2 food for everything but production and equal for production when food is not scarce.

This is horrifyingly wrong. +1 = -2 and you've actually decreased your effective food pool available to work Hills. Again, if you caught crazy Stone/Horses/Cows/Sheep things are different, but as a rule maximizing involves growing to the efficient size for the city and then voluntarily stopping.

 

[ArcaneSeraph]

ArcaneSeraph:

I've actually been playing some games working with Pyramids. They seemed already okay before. the caveat is that I'm not selling my resources to AI, so hooking them up extra-early doesn't give my any benefit over the tile improvement - and I have to pay for tile maintenance even if I don't have the pop to work them.

Between the +25% worker speed and +2 Workers, Pyramid is looking a little too strong.

The pyramids aren't bad under the current patch but honestly I've never given them much thought. The main reasons are if I went liberty I don't need the extra worker because I'll have 3 - 4 anyway from building / buying / policies / stealing. If I went tradition, I was aiming for the GL, the orcale, or the NC making getting masonry a significant detour. So for my playstyle at least the pyramids didn't interest me.

However with this change they might become more interesting as they are much closer to being on par production wise with the two workers. I still can't see going for it with liberty myself... I just don't know what I'd do with all those workers. You are going to get at least 4 assuming you steal one... and they are going to be lightning fast. You would save the cost of buying one if you typically did so which might offset the lost gold on trades with the AI. So it might not be bad.

Tradition doesn't have the worker abundance and one of the weaknesses of tradition is a lack of early production savings from the free worker and settler. Played right, tradition + aristocracy + pyramids could make up for some of that earlier than pre-patch.

I wouldn't say it's too powerful though. You are giving up a fair bit to go down this route. Early granary... early library... the GL (at least on harder difficulties). For egypt though I could actually see it becoming the way to go under a lot of circumstances. 1) They get the best boost to building it. 2) They start with marble often times. 3) the burial tombs and legalism syngerizes well.

 

[Bechhold]

There's more notes, correct?

Also:

Harbor no longer increases naval production by 15%.

Wtf.

 

[Roxlimn]

ArcaneSeraph:

Can't talk about higher diff settings, but it's definitely worth it if there's Marble and Stone around the capital, and no Granary resources. Tradition Opener + Aristocracy really lower the Pyramid costing, and with the +3 culture, makes gaining back the starting Liberty Policies easier. Between worker steal, the Liberty Worker and Pyramid Worker, and +50% Worker speed, I don't build any more Workers at all. I figure I'm saving Worker hammers that way, in exchange for the early Granary benefit, particularly if the early Granary won't be that strong anyway.

Is it worth building the early Granary even if only for +2 food?

 

[Ceterius]

There's more notes, correct?

Also:


Wtf.

Naval production bonus was added to Seaport.