C2C - Maintenance Adjustments

[Koshling]

You have to remember these are very old buildings from when Afforess made the Farming mod and Firestorm Mod for me. There was not as much health or food buildings as there are now.

All maintenance stuff will have to be re-looked at. Just too much to work on at the moment. Things like this and Sports mod need to be redone.

Actually these may well be fine. After I fixed the 'actuals' in the displayed text (see other thread) they look like I should have been building them all along!

 

[Koshling]

Steel mills are +15% to production (+another 10% with power), but replace forges which are +25%. Shouldn't a steel mill (even without power) be at least as productive as a classical forge?

 

[Schwarzbart]

Knight's Stable gives +3 Exp. to Mounted Units but Replace Stable and Ger acording to the pedia of 15.1.
The Problem with this is that Stable gives +2 Exp. then Riding School require Stable what gives a other +2 Exp., Speed + faster Training so to me the Knight's Stable looks like a very bad trade.
Then About Ger because it became a Culture building it maybe shouldn't become obsolent by building the Knigt's stable especial bedcause the Ger alone gives +4 Exp.
Maybe it would be bether to change the Knight Stable to just +1 Exp but make nothing Obsolent.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Knight's Stable gives +3 Exp. to Mounted Units but Replace Stable and Ger acording to the pedia of 15.1.
The Problem with this is that Stable gives +2 Exp. then Riding School require Stable what gives a other +2 Exp., Speed + faster Training so to me the Knight's Stable looks like a very bad trade.
Then About Ger because it became a Culture building it maybe shouldn't become obsolent by building the Knigt's stable especial bedcause the Ger alone gives +4 Exp.
Maybe it would be bether to change the Knight Stable to just +1 Exp but make nothing Obsolent.

I will have to fix it so the Riding School requires Stables OR Knight's Stables. As for the Ger, I think it goes obsolete long before the Knight's Stables appear.

 

[Schwarzbart]

At last in my 15.1 Game I managed to get to Knight Stable looong bevore Ger became Obsolent by City Planing or how the Tech is named.
(You need Mounted Archery for the Keshik and then Stirrup isn't to fare away anymore. The first need Archery the second Iron Working)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok you guys I fixed the Ger and Riding School and uploaded it to the SVN.

 

[Lelouch]

In one game I founded sids sushi and I the maintenance from to founding city which was my capital, my income went from 300 gold per turn to -1000 gold per turn. nowdays the only buildings/projects which I build and Increase maintenance are the nuke interception ones.
my suggestion would to put a cap on the maintenance of corporations and making sids sushi cost at least 70% less maintenance because I also had burgerworld and it only cost 50-60 gold per turn for each city.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So I am attempting to solve the over abundance of gold as well as the overrun maintenance problem. I am replacing maintenance with -. Here is the break down. Note some have already been uploaded to the SVN. I am using Sim City 4 maintenance values -100. For instance a jail in sim city coast $450 per month. When converting it to C2C it is now -45 .

Building = -

Power Plants
Power Lines = -1
DOE = -10
Coal = -10
High-Tech Coal = - 20
Oil = -15
Shale = -20
Natural Gas = -15
Methane = -15
Biomass = -15
Biofuel = -15
Waste Incinerator = -5
Nuclear = -40
Fission = -1000
Hydro = -20
3 Gorge Dam = -20
Geothermal = -20
Wind = -1
Wave = -1
Tidal = -1
Solar Mirror = -1
Solar Volt = -1
Solar Roof = -1
Solar Updraft = -100
Microwave = -50
Solar Satellite = -25

Water
DOW = -10
Town Well = -1
Artesian Well= -2
Water Pipes = -1
Irrigation Canals = -5
Aqueduct = -10
Bath House = -10
Cistern = -5
Reservoir = -5
Water Tower = -5
Hand Water Pump = -2
Wind Water Pump = -4
Water Pumping Station = -30
Desalination Plant = -60
Sewer System = -15
Water Treatment Plant = -30

Fire
Fire Hydrants = -5
Fire Brigade = -12
Fire Station = -24
Fire Dock = -24
Fire Hanger = -24

Law
Police Station = -25
Jail = -25
Prison = -30
Crucifiction Crosses = -5
Stocks = -10
Gallows = -15
Guillotine = -20
Electric Chair = -25
Lethal Injection = -30
Cryogenic Prison = -35
Chief's Hut = -5
Courthouse = -20
Local Courthouse = -20
District Courthouse = -25
Supreme Court = -30
Check Point = -10
Interrogation Building = -25
Reeducation Center = -25
Intelligence Agency = -25
Mind Control Center = -100
Scotland Yard = -25
Security Bureau = -25
Security Center = -25
Town Watch = -5
AI Surveillance = -35

Health
Insane Asylum =
More to come ...

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

So I am attempting to solve the over abundance of gold as well as the overrun maintenance problem. I am replacing maintenance with -. Here is the break down. Note some have already been uploaded to the SVN. I am using Sim City 4 maintenance values -100. For instance a jail in sim city coast $450 per month. When converting it to C2C it is now -45 .

Building = -

More to come ...

Just a suggestion: most of these buildings are modern buildings while the over abundance of gold is present throughout the game; and in modern era gold should be anyway more abundant than in the earlier eras because everything costs a lot more (units, buildings and so on)... so probably there will be something else to tweak as well in every era. So, waiting for "more to come"

 

[Koshling]

Just a suggestion: most of these buildings are modern buildings while the over abundance of gold is present throughout the game; and in modern era gold should be anyway more abundant than in the earlier eras because everything costs a lot more (units, buildings and so on)... so probably there will be something else to tweak as well in every era. So, waiting for "more to come"

I really don't think we should (for the most part) be solving this issue via building chnages. See my post on the gold thread, in support of Joseph's position.

 

[Nevets_]

I wouldn't base building costs on another game, I'd look at the current buildings we have that 'trade' one thing for another and try to balance it against them. For example: How much is a or worth? Obviously in the early game not much, maybe 1 for both. The later game gold gets cheaper as you get +% buildings like grocers, banks, etc. and you have more and buildings like airports and garrisons.

I would divide buildings into two categories:

Production buildings either extract/produce a raw resource (like a Cow Farm), or refine it into something usable (like a Dairy). They should produce from the sale of their goods, and maybe generate a little / / / etc. from increasing the local availability of them.

Service buildings make people's lives better, but require supplies and labor and don't return much, if any, profit. So these would cost , but provide and , , free XP for units, added city defense, etc. Free market civics would make these buildings less costly but less effective, socialist civics would make them more costly and more effective.

And the relative values would change as time goes on and people demand more for less, which means you have to spend more supplying it.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Nevets & Koshling

I am just using the Sim City model, like I always have. Industrial, Commercial and Residential buildings produce gold while Civic buildings like Hospitals, Police, Fire Stations, Power Plants, Water, Garbage, etc consume gold. It makes sense and has been well tested in Sim City games. The trick will be balancing it for C2C. But it should work.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So after some testing my - went too far. Now I can hardly keep my science slider up from 0%. So I think I need to reduce the amount of - all these buildings are giving. But by how much? What should determine how much negative gold a building has? Should it be opposite of its benefit (ex. +1 = -1 )? Should it be by the era its is in? Should just be a standard -1?

 

[BlueGenie]

Considering that it's per city a + or + shouldn't cost too much. Wanting buildings to give +5 in 10 cities would be a lot if each cost 5 each, 250 per turn. 1 each would still be 50 for 10 cities, and that's not counting costs for increases. Keeping the maintenance increase would in my opinion be better as a bigger city then pays more for higher and .

Maybe it'd be better and easier to change the way corporations and guilds work instead as most of the really high costs seem to come once they have been established. I'm not all that familiar with how they work so hard pressed to give suggestions. Reduced increase in maintenance perhaps, or have them cost a flat sum. Maybe even consider them privatized and not costing for the player and the civ itself though set them to not only give a bonus but also a penalty of some kind, depending on what corporation it is of course.

Anyway, that's my though.

Cheers

 

[EldrinFal]

Maybe it'd be better and easier to change the way corporations and guilds work instead as most of the really high costs seem to come once they have been established. I'm not all that familiar with how they work so hard pressed to give suggestions. Reduced increase in maintenance perhaps, or have them cost a flat sum. Maybe even consider them privatized and not costing for the player and the civ itself though set them to not only give a bonus but also a penalty of some kind, depending on what corporation it is of course.

Anyway, that's my though.

Cheers

Guilds and corps aren't the only issue. They certainly add to it, but is widely available even without them.

 

[Nevets_]

So after some testing my - went too far. Now I can hardly keep my science slider up from 0%. So I think I need to reduce the amount of - all these buildings are giving. But by how much? What should determine how much negative gold a building has? Should it be opposite of its benefit (ex. +1 = -1 )? Should it be by the era its is in? Should just be a standard -1?

Here's what I was thinking:

Prehistoric Era:
-1 = +1 & +1
-1 = +0.15 / person

Ancient Era:
-2 = +1 & +2
-1 = +0.10 / person

Classical Era
-3 = +2 & +2
-2 = +0.10 / person

Medieval Era:
-4 = +2 & +2
-3 = +0.10 / person

Too many icons, continued in next post.

 

[Koshling]

Guilds and corps aren't the only issue. They certainly add to it, but is widely available even without them.

Guilds and corporations fix the gold issue and give you significant difficulty staying solvent in fact. They certainly don't add to the gold issue (at least not the corps I've had experience with - typically spreading a corporation in a city costs me about 100 gold per turn extra maintanence I have found at late industrial)

 

[Nevets_]

Renaissance Era:
-5 = +2 & +2
-4 = +0.10 / person

Industrial Era:
-6 = +2 & +2
-5 = +0.10 / person
-10 for dirty power

Modern Era:
-7 = +2 & +2
-6 = +0.10 / person
-20 for clean power

This way the there is a gradual increase in costs. Players will want to build the early inexpensive buildings (representing basic needs like shelter, clean water, etc.) before the more later, more expensive ones (representing non-critical needs like entertainment, food variety, etc.)

If a building gives extra or just bump the cost up 1 or 2

 

[Nevets_]

Guilds and corporations fix the gold issue and give you significant difficulty staying solvent in fact. They certainly don't add to the gold issue (at least not the corps I've had experience with - typically spreading a corporation in a city costs me about 100 gold per turn extra maintanence I have found at late industrial)

The problem with corporations as a money sink is that the only useful ones are the and ones, the , , and ones cost more way than they give you, you could get more just adjusting your sliders. And the and ones are basically worthless since there are so many and buildings already.

 

[Koshling]

The problem with corporations as a money sink is that the only useful ones are the and ones, the , , and ones cost more way than they give you, you could get more just adjusting your sliders. And the and ones are basically worthless since there are so many and buildings already.

Agreed. I wsn't trying to argue they are/should be the solution to any putative gold issues, simply that as things stand they certainyl don' make them worse.