C2C Options

[Toffer90]

Wasn't there a proposal that the AI should be set to Settler instead to make things harder for the player? I think someone pointed out that this would be much harder to implement, but I cannot remember the reason for that.

I proposed it and implemented it in my modmod 6-8 months ago. It was easy to implement, though I think I made barbarians play settler and other AI's play chieftain. It did of course require some rethinking and reworking of all the modifiers throughout the difficulty line. I'll probably resume work on the modmod in about 2-3 months, when it gets more refined, I would expect some discussions about what parts of the modmod might tricle into the main mod.

Cave Dwelling appears to never obsolete, so you get that +2/+2 even into the far future.

I think it used to be replaced by almost all housing after and including stone huts.

 

[Noriad2]

Basically all that changed was really i "upped" each level by 2 is all.



DEFAULT -- NIGHTMARE

Noble -- Monarch

Prince -- Emperor

Monarch -- Immortal

Emperor -- Deity

Immortal -- up 2 levels

Deity -- up 2 levels

I think this is terribly convoluted. Why not make a new Deity which is the same as current deity+nightmare, and a new Immortal which is the same as current Immortal + half of Nightmare (i.e. up 1 level) and then permanently delete the nightmare option altogether?

Not a very high priority change but it removes fluff and thus potential confusions from C2C. Streamlining is beneficial for its own sake. "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

 

[tmv]

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."

I think that has never been a principle of C2C.

OTOH, I think that would break savegames again (I'm rather certain you'd be changing an enum), so that might be an idea to do when savegames are broken anyway.

Then there is the problem of finding a fitting name for something beyond a deity - I think that would be a non-trivial problem.

Lastly, I've read somewhere you cannot just continue the difficulty progression beyond deity, otherwise your first citizen could be directly after founding the city, so you have to "change the direction" - I think it would be less intuitive if you packed all these levels in a single line of progression.

 

[Noriad2]

Then there is the problem of finding a fitting name for something beyond a deity - I think that would be a non-trivial problem.

No need for new levels, just put more difference between the current ones.

 

[Thunderbrd]

No need for new levels, just put more difference between the current ones.

Not sure if I agree or disagree with previous statements you've made here (on the fence) but this I disagree with. The current difficulty gradiation is very measured and would be disrupted greatly by this sort of approach. Better to add a few more levels.

If Nightmare Mode also made the AI play at Settler level (so it plays as well as it does on non-Nightmare and is not equally hindered as the player) then it would make a lot more sense to me the way this setup works.

 

[strategyonly]

If Nightmare Mode also made the AI play at Settler level (so it plays as well as it does on non-Nightmare and is not equally hindered as the player).

Dont quite understand, sorry?

 

[Thunderbrd]

The AI normally always plays at Noble level.

On Nightmare Mode, Noble level is 2 levels harder as all levels are.

Thus on Nightmare Mode, the AI's game is made more difficult as well as the player's.

Therefore, it would make more sense to adjust the AI to play on Settler level when playing Nightmare Mode so it's game isn't made any tougher while the Player's game is.

 

[strategyonly]

The AI normally always plays at Noble level.

On Nightmare Mode, Noble level is 2 levels harder as all levels are.

Thus on Nightmare Mode, the AI's game is made more difficult as well as the player's.

Therefore, it would make more sense to adjust the AI to play on Settler level when playing Nightmare Mode so it's game isn't made any tougher while the Player's game is.

oh ok, never thought of that, but thats why i gave them a bigger lead in the techs, so basically make ALL the AI stuff listed (only) not the other stuff listed, at the settler level for ALL all the way up???

 

[Noriad2]

The AI normally always plays at Noble level.

On Nightmare Mode, Noble level is 2 levels harder as all levels are.

Thus on Nightmare Mode, the AI's game is made more difficult as well as the player's.

Therefore, it would make more sense to adjust the AI to play on Settler level when playing Nightmare Mode so it's game isn't made any tougher while the Player's game is.

Which means there should ideally be 2 versions for the AI: one optimized for normal mode, one optimized for nightmare mode.
I think it is easier to just make nightmare mode non-effective for anything below Immortal. So the AI always plays on the same difficulty. Which makes bug reporting, balancing and fine-tuning much easier.

 

[Thunderbrd]

oh ok, never thought of that, but thats why i gave them a bigger lead in the techs, so basically make ALL the AI stuff listed (only) not the other stuff listed, at the settler level for ALL all the way up???

No... there's a way to make the AI play at settler level rather than noble. It's not in the handicaps xml but somewhere else. Where the AI is set to what level it plays is the file that should be option replaced so that it makes the AI play at Settler rather than Noble when Nightmare mode is on.

Anyone happen to know off the top which file this is in?

Alternatively, just make Noble and less the same as normal play and make sure folks know that to experience Nightmare mode pretty much requires you play at higher than Noble, which you should be anyhow really right?

Giving them more bonuses and such is not necessarily a bad thing for the Nightmare Mode - makes for more reason for it to BE a nightmare mode.

 

[Toffer90]

Anyone happen to know off the top which file this is in?

I think it is in the global XML.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think it is in the global XML.

Good to see you Toffer! You are sorely missed on this project!

 

[Toffer90]

Thanks , I'll hopefully be back working alongside you all soon enough.

 

[Thunderbrd]

That's good news!

 

[strategyonly]

That's good news!

I completely agree here, but take ur time, rather be ready than half ready and . .. .

 

[Flinx]

We had an option which scaled civic limits according to the world size.
When did it get lost and why?

 

[JosEPh_II]

We had an option which scaled civic limits according to the world size.
When did it get lost and why?

Iirc, when we stopped supporting Immense and Gigantic Maps. Also iirc it was decided that the Option was no longer needed, ie redundant.

The Other Civic Limits is still a choice. But the # of cities per level was changed.

JosEPh

 

[Flinx]

A pretty short-sighted decision.
Now you get e.g. unhappy persons after settling 12 cities in monarchy.
For all map-sizes.
I remember setting the limits was based on a normal map, so for smaller maps the threshold of 12 was lower
and for bigger maps it was higher.
I still play games on huge maps and with 12 cities in monarchy you run pretty fast over the threshold.
I can't believe this was intended, abandon immense or gigantic maps or not.

 

[JosEPh_II]

A pretty short-sighted decision.
Now you get e.g. unhappy persons after settling 12 cities in monarchy.
For all map-sizes.
I remember setting the limits was based on a normal map, so for smaller maps the threshold of 12 was lower
and for bigger maps it was higher.
I still play games on huge maps and with 12 cities in monarchy you run pretty fast over the threshold.
I can't believe this was intended, abandon immense or gigantic maps or not.

What version are you playing? Please when you have a gripe or observation Please Please tell what version you are using. It makes a Big Big difference on how you will get answered. Because you seem to be playing with an older version and not with the latest SVN or even the last v36 crime Patch.

And to boot older saves from different v36 updates or even official v36 release from over a year ago are now Broken with the latest SVn or the last V36 crime update.

Your observations can also be because of an outdated User settings Folder too.

More info on your set up is Always needed.

JosEPh

 

[Flinx]

As always i´m on the current SVN.
And with this, there is no option scale city limits nor tunnels.
So my wish to have both options back is pretty easy to get, isn't it?

I'm pretty sure that the options provide a lot of choices some of the developers don't use.
I'm fine with that. But i can't see the need to remove options without an obvious reason.
So again, please add them back.