Civics Improvements Suggestions

[gay_Aleks]

Isn't Intelligence Bureau an already existing building or one very similarly named?

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

How about Intelligence Bureau? I will admit that Spy School is snappier, but it just seems wrong to me.

Don't we already have something like Intelligence Agency or Security Bureau?

 

[gay_Aleks]

Actually, I think we have both.

 

[Arakhor]

That might be polluting my memory then.

 

[Noyyau]

Agent Training Academy?
Covert Training Facility?

 

[Vokarya]

Don't we already have something like Intelligence Agency or Security Bureau?

Both of those are in regular BTS. Security Bureau is available at Democracy in that game, which I think is a bit anachronistic. It's probably so you get a chance to use it some before the endgame. Security Center is the upgrade. It sounds like it comes from SMAC, but it doesn't. There are several Transhuman buildings whose names did come from SMAC (Aerospace Complex, Bioenhancement Center, Hybrid Forest, Naval Yard, Network Node, Paradise Garden, Quantum Lab).

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

Agent Training Academy?
Covert Training Facility?

Spy Academy or Agent Academy sound better than Spy School, IMO.

 

[Vokarya]

Agent Training Academy?
Covert Training Facility?

Too long. I prefer to keep names as short as possible. I've noticed overly long naming is a common disease among modders, and I am going to keep AND's naming as concise as possible.

 

[Arakhor]

Spy Academy or Agent Academy sound better than Spy School, IMO.

Spy Academy is the better one of those two.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I also have a few suggestions to make regarding the Church civic. Some of the things that I want require DLL support.

The first is that I think the current health mechanic of +1 health, +1 for each Monastery, is clunky. We have to write out every single building that is affected. I think a more appropriate mechanic would be +3 health in cities with State Religion. This would require defining a tag for <iStateReligionHealth> that would be a mirror of the current <iStateReligionHappiness>. I can't DLL mod, so I can't do this myself, but I don't think it would be that difficult to code.

The second relates to another XML tag. The tag is <iImprovementUpgradeRateModifier>. This is the tag that allows a civic to influence the rate of growth of any improvement that upgrades to another. In BTS, this is used by the Emancipation civic to double the growth rate of improvements in the Cottage line. In AND, the ONLY civic using this tag is Church, and only to the tune of 10%. I think some other civics should use this. I think Planned and/or Communalism would be good bets for this tag.

The third suggestion related to the text for this tag. This tag currently lists every improvement that is upgradeable. The tag cannot actually specify any particular improvement to speed up or slow down. It applies one number to all improvements that can naturally upgrade. This was acceptable in BTS because the only improvements that could upgrade were the Cottage line. We have many more improvements that are upgradeable, and so the text line is much longer. The routine that lists the improvements is lines 8682-8690 of CvGameTextMgr.cpp. I think this routine should be taken out and the string TXT_KEY_CIVIC_IMPROVEMENT_UPGRADE be replaced by a fixed string that says %D1_Mod%% Growth for Improvements and nothing else. That will make the civic easier to understand at a glance.

I'm testing the health changes and will upload them soon. I've replicated iStateReligionHappiness with iStateReligionHealth, which means the tag is not only available for civics but for buildings too, although I haven't added the tag to any building. Anyway I just add the tag and then I leave it to you to balance the proper values. To tell the truth +3 health is a bit too strong, I would go for 2, but it's really up to you.
I'll have a quick look at TXT_KEY_CIVIC_IMPROVEMENT_UPGRADE too.

Edit: I'm also removing text about inflation from civics text, since we don't have inflation anymore. Also, I have some doubts about TXT_KEY_SHARED_CIVIC_TRADE_MOD because although we don't have trade routes anymore, I'm not sure if connectedness is helped in any way when civs share the same civics, I still have to check.

 

[Vokarya]

I'm testing the health changes and will upload them soon. I've replicated iStateReligionHappiness with iStateReligionHealth, which means the tag is not only available for civics but for buildings too, although I haven't added the tag to any building. Anyway I just add the tag and then I leave it to you to balance the proper values. To tell the truth +3 health is a bit too strong, I would go for 2, but it's really up to you.
I'll have a quick look at TXT_KEY_CIVIC_IMPROVEMENT_UPGRADE too.

Edit: I'm also removing text about inflation from civics text, since we don't have inflation anymore. Also, I have some doubts about TXT_KEY_SHARED_CIVIC_TRADE_MOD because although we don't have trade routes anymore, I'm not sure if connectedness is helped in any way when civs share the same civics, I still have to check.

I wanted +3 health for Church because I was thinking you easily get that much or more once you get to the Renaissance and get multiple Monasteries. +2 would be right where it starts but it would get solidly eclipsed once Private shows up in the mid-Medieval. I'll look at it some more.

 

[Vokarya]

I think Safehouse makes an even better building concept for the Shadow War civic building.

It will still grant Logistics I (espionage supplies) but also provide additional espionage defense. I think +25% is fair, balanced by some lowering elsewhere.

 

[Vokarya]

So I have a spreadsheet of all the civics and I'm looking for opportunities to broaden the use of the mechanics we have. Some mechanics don't deserve to be repeated. Chiefdom is the only civic with a city limit (max 3 cities, possibly scaled) and the reason there is to prod you out of it quickly. Others do deserve repeating.

The only civics that currently use Fixed Borders are Despotism, Monarchy, and Intolerant. Do you think any other civics should have this ability? I'm looking at Nationalist in particular.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

So I have a spreadsheet of all the civics and I'm looking for opportunities to broaden the use of the mechanics we have. Some mechanics don't deserve to be repeated. Chiefdom is the only civic with a city limit (max 3 cities, possibly scaled) and the reason there is to prod you out of it quickly. Others do deserve repeating.

The only civics that currently use Fixed Borders are Despotism, Monarchy, and Intolerant. Do you think any other civics should have this ability? I'm looking at Nationalist in particular.

Definitely Nationalism, others that come to mind are Single Party, MAD, Interventionism and Isolationism. I would choose among these, maybe not all but some of them.

 

[45°38'N-13°47'E]

I wanted +3 health for Church because I was thinking you easily get that much or more once you get to the Renaissance and get multiple Monasteries. +2 would be right where it starts but it would get solidly eclipsed once Private shows up in the mid-Medieval. I'll look at it some more.

I still have to check but I'm not sure the health bonus is cumulative when you have multiple Monasteries; I suppose it only works for State Religion, this is why I thought about tuning down health in your proposal. But I might be mistaken.

Sorry, just checked; only when using Church every monastery is giving +1 health; so if we remove that, it's ok to give +2 o +3 health in cities with state religion. If not using Church, only Monasteries of your state religion give health.

 

[Vokarya]

Here's something else that will need to be fixed. The tag <iPopulationgrowthratepercentage> is used to increase the amount of food cities need to grow under Despotism and Warrior Caste. I'm using it with negative numbers for the Cosmopolitan civic (increased immigration). When I do so, the minus sign shows up despite the text saying LESS food to required to grow. The code that manages the tag TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CITY_FAST_GROWTH_SPEED needs to be edited to remove the minus sign before sending the number to the string. (I took a screenshot and highlighted the line with Snipping Tool.)



Also, we need to separate TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CITY_FAST_GROWTH_SPEED and TXT_KEY_BUILDING_CITY_SLOW_GROWTH_SPEED for buildings and civics. When it's used on a building, such as Draft Office, it really only applies to the city the building is built in, but the text implies that all cities are affected, which is not true.

 

[Arakhor]

I'd agree that Isolationism would use Fixed Borders.

 

[Vokarya]

Definitely Nationalism, others that come to mind are Single Party, MAD, Interventionism and Isolationism. I would choose among these, maybe not all but some of them.

I think just Nationalist and Single Party. I don't want to give FB to Isolationism. It's a starter civic and is viable until the mid-Renaissance if Appeasement and Imperium are unappealing.

 

[Vokarya]

Here's a general thought. There are several tags that affect city maintenance costs. I think it would be appropriate to limit these tags to the Government, Rule, and Welfare categories. There are a few other civics that currently have these tags and I think it might be better to remove those abilities from the civics and maybe find other ways to balance the civics out.

Specifically, right now I am looking at the Liberal civic. I think we can remove the -10% maintenance from numbers of cities and increase the culture bonus from +15% to +20%.

Other civics that do this are Nationalist, Communalism, Mercantile, Conscription, Standing Army, Unmanned Warfare, and Intolerant.

 

[Vokarya]

I mentioned this before, but I want to come back to it. The ability to hurry with Gold is shared by every Economy civic from Coinage to Regulated. I'm not sure this is a good idea to have it this widely available. In BTS, hurrying with Gold was limited to Universal Suffrage. That level is probably too restricted. I want to restrict it to a few civics and make it less ubiquitous.

Here's my ranking of which civics should and should not allow hurrying with gold:

• Regulated: Most likely. This is actually supposed to represent Keynesian economics.
• Free Market: Totally in character. Enough gold can buy anything.
• Corporate: Will do a lot for the right price. It helps the corporations' bottom line.
• Guilds: A lot like Corporate, but on a smaller scale.

--this is where I think the line should be drawn--

• Coinage: I think economics is not yet developed enough to handle hurrying for gold yet.
• Mercantile: Seems unnecessary here. Mercantile wants to accumulate money, not spend it.
• Planned: Least likely. The economy has already been planned out and doesn't need extra meddling in terms of hurrying.