[BNW] Community Deity Game #27 - Poland

[beetle]

CDG 27 – Casimir III

Please see the CDG Series Discussion Thread to express yourself if you have remarks and ideas. Some maps in the series use mods. This map uses the DLC map packs, so you will need “Explorers Map Pack”, “Scrambled Nations”, and “Scrambled Continents”, as well as the earlier (and more common) DLC such as “Wonders of the Ancient World”.

Please provide a screenshot of your victory turn. We also very much encourages pictures and stories related to the achievements and keys point in the game – because it’s fun to read for all of us! Restart or reload as you like, but in your write-up (which does not have to be long) please describe the challenges you faced.

We welcome all comments and questions, but please use the SPOILER tag if you attach a picture, make a comment about which civs are in the game, about natural wonders, locations of ancient ruins, terrain features, luxes, resources, etc. In short, if it’s information you can only know by playing the game, don’t spoil it for others by divulging this information in the open. Thank you for your cooperation, and have fun!

Before you download and play the map, please take a moment to speculate here in this thread on your initial thoughts and plans for the game. Will you settle in place? Will you try to found a religion? What are your plans for getting the most from the UA/UU/UB? What Victory Condition will you be aiming for?

The suggested VC is Domination.

Spoiler for opening screen shot :

Please note that there are TWO save files attached to this post. The AI from the file with “lite” in its name have each had a settler and worker deleted. As compared to the player, they still start off with an extra warrior, scout, and worker.

Spoiler for UA, UU, and UB :

Solidarity: Receive a free Social Policy when you advance to next era. This is easily the strongest UA available in the game.

You can train the Winged Hussar which is stronger (28 vs. 25), faster (5 vs. 4), and better promoted than the Lancer which it replaces. Winged Hussars start with Charge I and the Heavy Charge unique promotion. The promotions are retained when the unit is upgraded.

You can build Ducal Stables. In addition to the regular abilities of the Stable, the Ducal Stable increases gold Gold on Pasture tiles and gives +15 XP for Mounted Units. If you build (or buy) WH in cities with both a Ducal Stable and Military Academy, they can start with March or Blitz!

Spoiler for map type and settings :

Standard size, standard speed, standard number of civs and CS, etc. Map type is Terra Incognita (“an unpredictable Earth-like map”) with settings that mean it could be a Pangea or Fractal, but most often is like Continents. (Old World is probably connected; New Word might not exist; and Players start anywhere.) All VC are enabled.

Map was lightly edited, to remove some ice and to ensure AI have the resources to build early UU.

Your opponents are hand selected, so please be sure to comment once you figure out the theme! Could I have made better choices?

Spoiler for links to previous threads in CDG series :

CDG1: Persia, Oct. 31st, 2015, domination, Pangea, hard, map by Consentient
CDG2: Assyria, Nov. 15th, 2015, science, Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient
CDG3: Ethiopia, Dec. 2nd, 2015, culture, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by Consentient
CDG4: Spain, Dec. 17th, 2015, domination, NQ Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient.
CDG5: Indonesia, Jan. 2nd, 2016, culture, NQ Continents, hard, map by Consentient.
CDG6: Zulus, Jan. 15th, 2016, domination, Oval, easy, map by Consentient.
CDG7: Shoshone, Feb. 2nd, 2016, culture, Oval, very easy, map by Enslingkorp.
CDG8: Austria, Feb. 15th, 2016, science, Pangaea, very easy, map by IronfighterXXX.
CDG9: Brazil, Feb. 28th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Blatc.
CDG10: Denmark, March 14th, 2016, domination, Lakes, hard, map by Beetle.
CDG11: Venice, April 1st, 2016, domination, Archipelago, very easy, map by Wild_Woojsha.
CDG12: Byzantium, April 15th, 2016, domination, Continents, very hard, map by Beetle.
CDG13: Inca, April 30th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Shark Diver.
CDG14: Celts, May 18th, 2015, domination or culture, Oval, hard, map by Consentient.
CDG15: America, May 30th, 2016, diplomacy, Mesopotamia, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG16: Sweden, June 14th, 2016, domination or diplomacy, HB Continents, medium, map by Consentient.
CDG17: Germany, July 2nd, 2016, diplomacy, Pangaea, easy, map by Dan Quayle.
CDG18: France, July 14rd, 2016, diplomacy, HB Continents, hard, map by MaxAttack.
CDG19: Ottomans, Aug. 5th, 2016, domination, Continents, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG20: Portugal, Aug. 20th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG21: China, Sept. 9th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by @Dan Quayle.
CDG22: Maya, Oct. 2nd, 2016, domination or science, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by @consentient.
CDG23: Iroquois, Oct. 15th, 2016, domination or culture, NQ Oval, very hard, map by @consentient.
CDG24: Babylon, Nov. 11th, 2016, science, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG25: Arabia, Jan. 15th, 2018, domination, Pangea Plus, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG26: Polynesia, Jan. 29th, 2018, culture, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.

 

[Grendeldef]

That looks very promisingly crappy start and if only the Olympics would spare me a moment of free time....

@beetle. Might be my eyes vs reality issue but I think this is CDG 27 not 26 as it's indicated in the 1st line of this post - the topic is correct. Also, in the past CDG games list the last entry should be Polynesia, not Indonesia and before my massive inner grammar nazi takes a leave of absence the VC condition 'culure' on the same line looks very novel to me

 

[beetle]

That looks very promisingly crappy start...

I liked it better than the other four choices Rotate Start Position gave me. You start on hill. Forest to chop. Two different lux. You’ll be fine!

Thanks for catching several edits!

 

[Grendeldef]

Oh, I wasn't worried but genuinely excited - no 1st tier mining luxes and nothing much else to work on from the start.

I've made enough typos for several lifetimes so I'm overqualified making those and adequate spotting them. In this case it started with 'hmm, Indonesia - why did I miss it earlier'.

 

[carath63]

Thanks for putting this together. I'm not sure when I'll have a chance to play through this one, but I will post some updates along the way when I get started.

As for initial plans, based on the starting position, I would settle in place. I am trying to win a domination victory on Deity, so that's what I would try here as well. Given that, I have only pursued religion with Poland when I find some religious city states nearby or a religious ruins to give me an early pantheon.

I haven't had a lot of luck with a Composite Bow rush, so I might go through Calendar to get the cocoa up and sold early, then head for national college and come back for masonry and construction later. It sort of depends on who's around. I'll need to cut through the jungles as well, so early bronze working by the time I get a worker.

In my domination victories, I end up well on the way to artillery, and thus cavalry, before I get to the UU. They have been a somewhat useful upgrade for my pikes when I start taking cities, but I don't think I would rush them.

I can't wait to see what else is around me, and who else.

 

[beetle]

Good luck @carath63! Sounds like you have a fair plan!

 

[raider980]

Thanks for the lite version. I'll try that one, deity is too much for me and just not enjoyable past a certain (early) point. This will be harder than the Community Greece game; that worker to start with really helped. Poland is the top civ according to most lists so that will be a plus. And I've never played Poland so this will be fun.

I'll definitely settle in place, no need to move in that rough terrain with Cocoa and (what is that, silver, hopefully salt, marble?) nearby.

 

[beetle]

@raider980, I definitely struggle with the early deity game, especially if your neighbor has an ancient era UU. I actually enjoy the long slow come-from-behind mid-to-late game progression. I do not mind that the AI gets game-long buffs, since it is really only the accelerated start which I often find insurmountable. I wish there was a level between Immortal and Deity where the AIs get extra happy and production and what not — just not that extra settler. I think that is the difficulty level I would play all the time.

The Polish UA is just so straightforward. I played them quite a bit in the beginning, since the UA means a whole extra SP tree per game, they are a good way to get through all the trees when first learning the game.

 

[carath63]

It may be obvious to some, but you also need the "Wonders of the Ancient World DLC" in order to load this save game.

 

[beetle]

@carath63, I have adjusted OP to note that.

 

[raider980]

This game is a good example of the trouble I have with deity. Hope its ok if I discuss this here. I'm never sure of the optimal choices and I can get away with it at lower levels but not on deity.

Spoiler Not sure if spoiler is needed. Just discuss the starting location. :

The starting location has cocoa and marble. So I went Pottery > Writing > Calendar. My worker went to build a plantation to connect the cocoa; dagnabit, I need Bronze Working to chop the jungle. BW is clear on the other side of the tech tree and I don't even usually go for it until much later.

So I reloaded from an autosave before I started calendar. And I went for Mining > Masonry to get the marble. No time to build a library yet though so did I waste my time going Pottery > Writing? Should I just go Mining > Masonry from the beginning? Or should I build the library as soon as I get writing instead of anything else (can't remember what I thought was more important since I'm at work, maybe settler). What's the best tech path?

Also, I looked it up and if you build a plantation on cocoa you end up with what I would consider a worse tile than unimproved cocoa. From what I can find online, a plantation on cocoa on plains is 1f1p2g (maybe 0f2p2g if its a plains hill?) but the information is not clear so I'm not sure. But either way it sounds like building a plantation on cocoa is a bad idea. That 3 food early is great. Should I just wait until I need the happiness to build a plantation? Or am I wrong about the yield?

 

[beetle]

@raider980, no need for the spoiler tag since you are only talking about what is in the starting screen shot. (The starting screen shot is spoiled because of the size, not to keep it hidden per se.) Yes, Cocoa is annoying since it needs both Bronze Working and Calendar and there is no synergy from the tech tree there. As much as I play, I made the same mistake you did (forgetting about BW), but I did that with the recent Polynesia game (which also starts with Cocoa on Jungle). This game, I improved the Marble before the Cocoa. I also delayed Writing until Masonry, which I do not think is that much of big deal generally, but is good play for this game given the starting tiles. I think I got Pottery before Masonry to unlock Granaries. I skipped an early Shrine this game.

OTOH, Cocoa is a decent enough unimproved tile to work, so a good-enough start. And unlike Bananas, Cocoa is worth improving, and worth improving sooner than later. See this thread on Keeping Jungle when improving resource tiles with plantation.

 

[YomoKimyata]

Settling in place, although I'm tempted to move east a tile. I don't know the map (TerraIncognita) so I'm betting that a coast start for the capital is going to be better than one on a lake.

[Edit: Looking up TerraIncognita, I'm happy I made that choice and am going to prioritize sea development]

 

[beetle]

@YomoKimyata, something I only recently learned is that at T0 one can use the mouse-over tool tips to distinguish coastal hexes from lake hexes. The three water tiles to the NW are coastal. The two water tiles to the NE are freshwater.

Also, since jungles are plains when cleared, SIP means no Stoneworks. Which is arbitrary and disappointing, but it’s the choice that Firaxis made.

 

[YomoKimyata]

I knew that, thanks! I was making the decision purely on the water mill/garden/hydro plant aspect.

 

[beetle]

@YomoKimyata, any freshwater unlocks Garden, but your city needs to be on river to build Water Mill and Hydro Plant. Still, the lake in OP is quite nice since that means early +1 food farms in the first and second ring.

I'm betting that a coast start for the capital is going to be better than one on a lake.

I agree with that assessment. I would be conflicted over a choice between a no-lux coastal start and being on a river, but just settling on a lake to unlock Garden is only really good for the Aztec, since lake tiles themselves are so weak.

In hindsight, since I was editing the map anyway, I wish I had put a Fish in the tile next to the settler.

 

[carath63]

I'm at turn 138 and won't do much more until after the weekend. Current state of the world in my area plus some status in the spoiler below.

Spoiler Turn 138 :

I settled in place.
Krakow was settled on turn 41 on the cotton tile. Lodz was settled on turn 58.
My early tech path was Pottery->Mining->BW->Calendar->Archery->AH->Masonry->Writing->Philosophy (turn 69).
I built the National College on turn 91, which is slow compared to my previous games with Poland on Deity.
The ruins were stingy for me. I did not get any faith ruins nor any culture ruins, so no pantheon, and I did not get Tradition until turn 25.
I debated settling Wroclaw and Poznan and ended up settling both. Poznan stopped the Americans from settling further north, and Wroclaw gave me a coastal city on the eastern coastline, but now I am struggling with happiness and getting universities built in them in time for Oxford.
I am pretty friendly with everyone, although buying up the tiles around Poznan after America settled Atlanta has made them unhappy with me.
I am now heading for Dynamite and America will be my first target. I am still 8th in everything except land area, although I am picking up techs every few turns now and have stolen some from Austria. I think dynamite will be pretty late compared to my other recent Poland games, (best=turn 150, average=turn 160).
I have a big nest-egg of cash from selling cocoa, but I haven't started building any siege units to upgrade into artillery yet.

Was Poznan a mistake?
Am I too far behind for an artillery war with America to be successful?
Given the map, my next target will have to be Germany. They are currently allied with Malacca and there is a choke point there, so I may need a navy as well.

I'm not feeling good about this one; not focused enough...

 

[KingVercingetorix]

I'm at turn 138 and won't do much more until after the weekend. Current state of the world in my area plus some status in the spoiler below.

I'm roughly around the same point of the game as you. I'll give a quick rundown.

Spoiler :

I settled in place. Early game build order was Scout x2 and a monument. Early game tech path was Mining, Archery, Masonry, and Animal Husbandry. I usually always go Mining first if there are forests around my capital to chop. I don't usually tech Archery so early but I met Washington on turn 6, disrupting him with my Warrior, Scout and a couple of Archers seemed a good idea. A lot of the time he goes Liberty and I didn't want him expanding rapidly. In my game he decided to go Honour however.

On turn 14 I declared war on him and took one of his Workers. My Warrior and a Scout waited outside his borders keeping an eye out for Settlers. A nearby Barb camp meant the Worker I stole had to take the long route to Warsaw. I bought an Archer and built another after my Monument. These Archers cleared that Barb camp and fired potshots at American Warriors. Once I'd settled my first expo near Mt. Sinai I made peace. I made sure to pillage loads of his tiles the turn I made peace. I worked Mt. Sinai straight away for a Pantheon. I was able to choose Stone Circles which was nice, there is a lot of Marble/Stone on the starting island.

I settled two more expos and a fourth after the National College.

I Great Engineered my NC and was able to finish it on turn 74. My cities are so small for several reasons.

• I was fairly late settling. I didn't get my first Settler until around turn 30. Forest chops helped. I then needed to walk it to the Mt. Sinai location.
• Low production capital meant Settlers were taking around 10/11 turns.
• Late Collective Rule. I built both Settlers before I even got CR. Shame not to get the CR bonus.
• Wanted to work production tiles for faster Monument and Libraries.
  
• Not enough workers to improve tiles like Sheep and Cattle. I only manage to steal one Worker this game. I had to build two and I also got the Liberty free one.
• I hoped my small cities would have meant my cities would convert to my religion. This wasn't the case.
• Happiness issues in the settling phase. Jungle chocolate takes a while to get up and running.

After NC I wanted to get an army capable of taking Washington and some of America's expo cities. This meant I sacrificed building Aqueducts and built CBs and Spearman instead. My CS ally M'banza Kongo and friend Almaty helped improve my army. I received a Catapult, two Spearman and a Warrior. I also received a Horseman after the battle.


Machinery was a little bit late. I like getting it before turn 100. A slow settling phase hurt me here. Thankfully Washington sent me three Caravans. I had seven CBs in total but only had the money to upgrade six into XBs.


The war against America was easy. I ruined his early game by blocking expansion, killing some units, and pillaging. His army consisted of Trebuchets, Warriors and CBs. My XBs without many promotions were able to melt his units and cities. I was wasteful with my units on purpose. I'm planning on creating a completely different army for the other civs.


To completely cripple Washington I've left him with just one city. I even Citadel'd his Sugar off him. Unfortunately this war has caused some warmonger hatred. I had a DoF with Germany, Russia, Austria and Brazil but know they're all pretty angry with me.

For Social Policies I went for full Liberty. I also have Warrior Code and Discipline. I missed out on the Oracle by six turns. It went on turn 88. A civ I haven't met built it. This is why I'm not a fan of Continent type maps. I like being able to check capitals to see what wonders are being built. For my religion I went for Initiation Rites, Holy Warriors, Pagodas and Religious Texts.

I don't fancy researching Astronomy any time soon so I'll wait until somebody else founds World Congress. I've now got to focus on growth and infrastructure. I still haven't researched Education so I'm planning to steal it.

I'm not feeling good about this one; not focused enough...

This is how I'm feeling. I'm not sure if going on the offensive against America is the best choice. If I hadn't I'm sure he would have attacked me. The war against him has slowed down my early game a lot.

 

[carath63]

I'm roughly around the same point of the game as you. I'll give a quick rundown.

On the contrary, you fared much better against the Americans. Turn 152 they came swarming with Minutemen, Knights, Trebuchet, just as I finished researching chemistry.

I'll try again later, after I've seen some more posts.

 

[Grendeldef]

Wiee, trying to keep up with the series so I started this instead of the Polynesia one and not so surprisingly it's going barely anywhere - the lack of recent games shows as I tend to remember 10 turns afterwards what I should've done. Nothing to foresee a reasonable VC time but I'm not in too much of a trouble either. A memorable note to oneself: do NOT leave a road 1 tile short between cities 7 tiles apart - it will be costly.
After the Harun game this is more exciting but as the start was so slow I got more annoyed by the concepts in the game again.

Spoiler :

Settled on the spot for change, pop ruin on T2, money & maps after that and finally culture T25. T15 DoWed
Washy for a worker and brought 2 more units to block his expansion so my own exploration wasn't going anywhere.
2nd city T40 by Mt. Sinai and culture from pastures pantheon few turns later. Washy didn't have units and I couldn't have taken cities anyway so I made white peace T69. 5C Liberty not because it seemed the option but because of the map - land to settle if not by me then by someone else and an offensive war seemed highly unlikely. I had to buy a worker and hard build two to get anything going so everything was. extremely slow.
T72 3rd religion after waiting 8 freakin' turns for lazy Prophet to show up and Liberty finished next turn. Planted GS but GE for NC would've been a reasonable option as well I was seriously lacking hammers.
T110 Rennaissance by Germany, T111 NC finally, T119 Education even though I went there before Machinery but I DoWed Washy again just to get some XP. T129 enhanced my crappy religion - some Pagodas would be nice, even very late ones as I constantly struggling with happiness. CS quests were beyond doable and since I was running negative gpt for most of the time I couldn't throw money at them either. TRs were crap as Cathy settled one coastal city while Bismarck had none so I didn't have money to run food TR nor upgrade CBs. Only thing that sort of worked was 4 DoFs but the rest were also friends with each other so I only started one war between them by bribing.

T132 Washington and left him with one city, T138 Rationalism open, T165 Industrial by stealing which didn't make Austria too happy though she was pissed about everything by that time. T177 Pedro took Order and Haile Autocracy on T178. T180 Washy caught me by surprise by DoWing me without a single unit but I assume he got some motivation from Pedro who backstabbed on next turn - the lost RA was a set back but losing 4 out 5 TRs in 3 turns was truly annoying. T188 Radio & T189 2nd to pick Order.

2 DoFs, 2 RAs, no money, way too small cities, no hammers, -11 gpt, 2 CS allies, 4(ish) techs short of par, outdated Army, no Navy and so on so it could be better but I have very few options other than to wait for Flight or even Battleships.