Dune Wars 1.9.4 Patch Feedback

The 1.9.4 patch plays much different.
What do you think is the main reason for this?
If the AI is building so many more units, what is it building less of?
How would it have managed to field such a larger army without damaging it's economy, particularly as we significantly increased unit maintenance costs?
Is it really that the AI economy is so much stronger based on improvements in it's selection of techs?
 
What do you think is the main reason for this?
If the AI is building so many more units, what is it building less of?
How would it have managed to field such a larger army without damaging it's economy, particularly as we significantly increased unit maintenance costs?
Is it really that the AI economy is so much stronger based on improvements in it's selection of techs?
In order of questions posed. 1. BetterAI merge changed the game dramatically but the recent patches have slowed the human tech pace down substantially. 2. Nothing, the AI gets major bonuses on maintenance (see Chris's posts regarding era bonuses etc.) 3. See #2. Ix has 6 cities and has MORE units than me (power rating is misleading as it includes more than just unit strength) and I have 27 cities. Maintenance is killing me but is negligible for the AI. 4. The AI makes decent tech selections but I think it is really the weaker human player's economy that drags out the game to the point where the AI gets maximum bonuses and thus vast armies that the human player can't come close to affording, hence turn after turn of killing units because as you pointed out, the human player has the advantage in war tactics.
 
I understand that the AI had massive bonuses on maintenance, but it had all those bonuses before, too. It still has to devote hammers to building all those units, which means that it is not constructing economy-boosting buildings.

I cannot understand how it can have more units without less of something else. Unless the AI just used to float huge amounts of gold or espionage, and now it doesn't do this?

What changes have slowed the human tech pace down but do not do the same to the AI?

The BetterAI merge didn't change any of the bonuses that the AI gets, right? All it did was change AI decisions?

I guess I still don't understand what is driving the changes.
 
Ok, lot to respond to here, so I'll try to get to each point.

I'm going to start at the beginning though--why I'm even messing with this and what has been done. Most of my testing working on this mod I've done on Monarch difficutly, no tech-trading, aggressive AI, normal size map, epic. Time and time again I noticed that I consistently out teched the AIs so that by turn 250-300, the mid-game, I was 5-6 techs ahead of the tech leader at least, even when I didn't have a science heavy strategy. As I looked into why, turning on debug mode, noting the AI's builds, expansion, economy, research, etc. I found as I said before a primary problem of over expansion too early, poor early spice production, and poor emphasis on 'economic' buildings and research when they got into trouble, as well as over emphasis on espionage spending in the early game. This lead to a downward spiral where by the time they researched the necessary economic techs to recover, the player was well ahead.

Now, I came back to that because I want to point out that that is still the main part of what I've improved in the 'AI' work I've done. The second 'phase' we are talking about now is largely building upon that improved economic game by the AI and what that lets us do with other areas. But I always start any work with the idea that there is a problem that needs to be solved, and so that every one is on the same page, the problem statement if you will for this 'phase' is that under higher difficulty levels there is a trend towards 'unit spam'. To define that, it's an AI that builds abnormally/grossly more units than what a similar human player with that empire could build in a way that makes gameplay monotonous and victories impossible.

So, to lay out a few things about this, for reasons I've covered concerning the the vanilla handicap values in conjunction with new unit building logic from the Better AI merge we see this more and more the higher the difficulty level selected, and increasingly towards the late game more so than the early game. This basic statement covers the reasons I've taken the steps I have.

Now it's important to note, I do think and agree that the AI requires more units than a human to pose a challenge, and as a corollary, those units need to be relatively on par technologically with the human. There should also be a moderate increase in the ratio of AI units to human units likely to be seen at each increased difficulty level. If you combine these statements with the problem statement above, you have what I'm trying to achieve in testing.

The ratio of what army an AI can support with a given empire should be within no more than 10-30% more than a human could given the same empire dependent on difficulty level for it to not reach the 'tedious' point I'm thinking. If the player does well, he should be able to pull off an invasion without needing to sink his whole economy or feel like he's playing a game of whack-a-mole instead of civilization. I'm hoping we can all agree that this is a good goal.

I think all gamers have heard many claims about AI performance even from professional game developers to be pretty skeptical about such things.

And not knowing anything about you or prior work you've done, I don't think it's unreasonable to raise a few issues to check that you've considered them or thought of the consequences.

I'm certainly no AI expert, but I'm pretty good at designing models and in thinking about unintended consequences. If you've already thought of the issues I raise, then great.

:) I'm also very good at reasoning through things and following the logical conclusions they might lead to, much as you describe yourself. I'm a very intelligent and capable person, always have been, so it's always an odd balancing act when stepping into a new environment where you have to prove that all over again to new people. However I also know there's no fast track to achieving that, you can only do the best you can on what you're doing and hope it's recognized in time.

I'm also smart enough to know I (or anyone else) can't anticipate everything. Again because of the large amount of variables affecting the amalgamation of AI decisions there is a lot of trial and error to see what tends to cause what, which is why I'm not going to post every possible solution I come up for discussion with before trying it. I've got to weed out ideas before finding the best ones, and any discussion of these kinds of mechanics before they are tested and balanced is pure speculation, including my own thoughts on them. If there is one thing I have little patience for it is unsubstantiated speculation.

I guess what worries me is the AI's (lack of) strategic combat ability.

You and me both :lol:, but that's for another time. In particular behavior concerning building of effective city attack stacks, city attacks themselves, and the area you pointed to are all good areas that could be improved, but it is very time consuming work. For now, as I said above, I am and have been aiming for reducing real unit spam as I defined above, while keeping enough AI units commensurate to the difficulty level to try to keep it engaging but not tedious. It's an interesting balancing act no doubt.

My problem with inflation and non-linearities is one of transparency. The human needs to be able to figure out what the actual cost of a particular unit is, and why, and more importantly they need to be able to figure out the marginal cost of any particular decision. Inflation wrecks all this, because it means that if a city has maintenance costs of 6 but inflation is at 50%, then an effect that reduces maintenance costs by 1/3 actually saves you 3 gold per turn, not 2. So it becomes much harder to evaluate whether I should build a market, or a courthouse, for example.

One thing you'll hear me say from time to time is I'm not a big fan of catering to the min/max kind of play, meaning encouraging people to calculate every possible move down to the penny. I prefer to offer intuitive game play. The BUG actual building effect help makes it easy to look at a courthouse or market and see what it will add to the city, which seems min/max'y, but it really makes the choice intuitive without having to pull out a calculator. I honestly don't know if those values include inflation's effect on city maintenance as I've never looked, but I don't think it matters to most players because they aren't making sure every number given to them adds up to the total sum, as long as it gives them the correct 'feel' for what the best decision is, it's working.

I actually want to carry that same idea to unit cost, regardless of wether it's constant or not, so that when selecting a unit, it'll tell you what that additional unit will cost you if it was built today. I've found it a bit annoying to be checking in the early game when you can't necessarily afford any unit costs to have to go back and forth to the finance advisor screen to see how many more you can build before starting to pay for them, and this would alleviate that kind of micro and have even more positive effect if additional unit costs aren't constant (still up in the air).
 
What changes have slowed the human tech pace down but do not do the same to the AI?
Unit maintenance costs affect the human player more than the AI (which gets bonuses). So, when maintenance costs were increased, the human player had to pay the full amount of the increase (reducing research quite noticably) whereas the AI, while still paying more (but not the full increase due to bonuses), gained research power relative to the human player. However, the AI (as Chris has pointed out) used this "excess" commerce to just spam more units instead of improving research, hence the same research rate as before but many more units. Early game, both the AI and human player are hampered (human moreso), and late game, the research disparity heavily favors the AI (due to era bonuses) but the AI uses most of the disparity to crank out units.
 
The BetterAI merge didn't change any of the bonuses that the AI gets, right? All it did was change AI decisions?

I guess I still don't understand what is driving the changes.

I still remember the first time I played a mod that included the BetterAI changes that caused this, it was a CCCV version probably at least over a year ago, and later when RevDCM merged it in. It was very noticeable, though I've played under it for so long I'd almost got numb to it. As for why, along with what Jester just pointed to, it's somewhere in how it changed the logic of when to build units and where the economic switch off points were. It's a very long logic chain that has to be looked over one piece at a time to understand why each piece is there and how it fits into the whole AI behavior.

I've still got some 'leak' in the system where the AI is building units after hitting economic caps that prevent most further unit building logic that I'm tracking down. There are a few 'necessity' cases like a city not having a basic number of defenders and such that ignore the economy because they are supposed to be 'necessities', mostly intended for the early game, but might be triggering in unexpected ways later in the game due to unit shuffling or something else.
 
Most of my testing working on this mod I've done on Monarch difficutly, no tech-trading, aggressive AI, normal size map, epic. Time and time again I noticed that I consistently out teched the AIs so that by turn 250-300, the mid-game, I was 5-6 techs ahead of the tech leader at least, even when I didn't have a science heavy strategy
I do not think you should balance or test the mod around assuming that tech trading is off. Most people don't play like that. I generally turn on "no tech brokering", but even then.
Tech trading is an important part of the game (one of the values of high diplomatic relations is that it gives you someone to trade with), and in general it is something that the AIs do a lot of with each other.

I found as I said before a primary problem of over expansion too early, poor early spice production, and poor emphasis on 'economic' buildings and research when they got into trouble, as well as over emphasis on espionage spending in the early game.
This seems fine to me, especially the lack of spice production. I strongly support your fixes here.

the problem statement if you will for this 'phase' is that under higher difficulty levels there is a trend towards 'unit spam'.
I'm certainly open to the possibility that this is a problem, though I think better too many than too few. It's important that the AI builds up large armies and attacks you with them, and that it is difficult to conquer the AI players.

The ratio of what army an AI can support with a given empire should be within no more than 10-30% more than a human could given the same empire dependent on difficulty level for it to not reach the 'tedious' point I'm thinking.
I strongly disagree with this. Those numbers are arbitrary, and are too low. The AI is very, very bad at combat. The human player is way more than 10-30% more efficient. Often a human is twice as efficient. If the AI player only has 30% more units, then the human will sleepwalk to military victory. The AI throws it's stacks against cities even when it achieves only 1:4 loss ratios. The AI is very vulnerable to collateral damage, particularly from aircraft. At these kinds of combat odds, I think the human player will rarely lose a unit, and then these things can spiral out of control; if I fight you in the early game and destroy your army at 4:1 odds, then I will have a much bigger army if I fight you again later.

You and me both , but that's for another time.
It can't be for another time. The AI's weakness in combat is fundamentally tied to how many units it has. The only reason why we might want it to have lots of units is to compensate for its incompetence in using them.

I actually want to carry that same idea to unit cost, regardless of wether it's constant or not, so that when selecting a unit, it'll tell you what that additional unit will cost you if it was built today.
Do you mean: what it would cost in terms of maintenance cost? I think that would be great.

Unit maintenance costs affect the human player more than the AI (which gets bonuses). So, when maintenance costs were increased, the human player had to pay the full amount of the increase (reducing research quite noticably) whereas the AI, while still paying more (but not the full increase due to bonuses), gained research power relative to the human player.
Ok, this seems like a good argument, but my impression was that unit maintenance was still mostly fairly low, so I have a bit of trouble imagining it could make all that much difference.

And again: I thought we had versions of BBAI in Dune Wars for the last couple of years. Am I wrong here?
 
I do not think you should balance or test the mod around assuming that tech trading is off. Most people don't play like that. I generally turn on "no tech brokering", but even then.
Tech trading is an important part of the game (one of the values of high diplomatic relations is that it gives you someone to trade with), and in general it is something that the AIs do a lot of with each other.

I know it's a concern, but trading with the AI leads to many gamey tactics that I don't want to have to take part in, but yet you are forced to to keep up since they are trading with each other :crazyeye:. I turn it on every once in a while to make sure there are no big problems, as it does affect the pace and the difficulty. I also find that there are plenty of other reasons to play nice with your neighbors :).

I strongly disagree with this. Those numbers are arbitrary, and are too low. The AI is very, very bad at combat. The human player is way more than 10-30% more efficient. Often a human is twice as efficient. If the AI player only has 30% more units, then the human will sleepwalk to military victory. The AI throws it's stacks against cities even when it achieves only 1:4 loss ratios. The AI is very vulnerable to collateral damage, particularly from aircraft. At these kinds of combat odds, I think the human player will rarely lose a unit, and then these things can spiral out of control; if I fight you in the early game and destroy your army at 4:1 odds, then I will have a much bigger army if I fight you again later.

Note that these numbers are very *rough* estimates off the top of my head for the game without 'AggressiveAI' turned on aimed towards the average player who doesn't necessarily need to have really powerful AI's to have fun with the game and probably won't find wading through tons of units fun. The AggressiveAI option will increase the economic thresholds AIs will build units up to, and reduce the cost of units to give in a fairly focused way more AI units within any given difficulty level. That way it's able to give the game both casual or advanced players might want to have.

It's also worth noting that the AI should compete better on average at lower difficulty levels technologically than before so that there will be fewer wars against outdated enemies.

It can't be for another time. The AI's weakness in combat is fundamentally tied to how many units it has. The only reason why we might want it to have lots of units is to compensate for its incompetence in using them.

It's a nice sentiment, but I don't have to time to review and analyze the combat AI right now, that's probably 10x as much code to analyze and connect to in-game observations than what I'm currently working on with the production AI, and really requires observation of the mid to late game when all the unit types are in play and invasions are going on, which takes longer to do than making early game observations for fairly obvious reasons. If I can make focused observations of specific mistakes that can be improved, I will, but I doubt it'll be that easy.

For the most part it'll have to wait until I can devote some time and focus on it in particular.

Do you mean: what it would cost in terms of maintenance cost? I think that would be great.

That's what I mean. I also need to add in the actual effects for the 'per resource' buildings, which will be easy, just haven't done it yet.

Ok, this seems like a good argument, but my impression was that unit maintenance was still mostly fairly low, so I have a bit of trouble imagining it could make all that much difference.

Deliberator added in a Global Define that multiplies unit cost, which he set to 200%, so all units in DuneWars (over the free unit cap) actually cost twice as much as in vanilla at present.

I thought we had versions of BBAI in Dune Wars for the last couple of years. Am I wrong here?

If I'm not mistaken prior to 1.9.1 it was built on an older RevDCM base that in turn only had an older Better BTS AI version merged into it.
 
I know it's a concern, but trading with the AI leads to many gamey tactics that I don't want to have to take part in,
I would think that most formal testing would involve AI autoplays? I'd recommend leaving tech trading on for that.

the average player who doesn't necessarily need to have really powerful AI's to have fun with the game
IMO the average player who doesn't want to face powerful AIs isn't playing Emperor difficulty or higher. The original complaint was that on high difficulty levels the AI has too many units. Well, it's the high difficulty levels where the AI needs to provide a challenge.
You should not have to turn Aggressive AI on to get a tough game when playing at a high difficulty level. The difficulty level should be the main determiner of game difficulty, rather than game options.
I'm a bit bothered by an argument that basically says 'it doesn't matter if we weaken the AI and make it easy to conquer, because most people don't want a tough AI challenge'. That doesn't seem like a good design goal.

Deliberator added in a Global Define that multiplies unit cost, which he set to 200%, so all units in DuneWars (over the free unit cap) actually cost twice as much as in vanilla at present.
Right, but with a large empire the free unit cap is still pretty large. Unit maintenance is normally pretty low compared to building and civic maintenance.

If I'm not mistaken prior to 1.9.1 it was built on an older RevDCM base that in turn only had an older Better BTS AI version merged into it.
Yes, this is my understanding, but then the issue is new BBAI vs older BBAI, not BBAI vs no BBAI.
Has BBAI really improved that much over the last several months? [If so, great!]

Anyway, enough theorycrafting, I need to do some testing. I will hopefully have a bit of time over the next 10 days or so, and then the weekend after that I should have a good chunk of time.
 
I'm certainly open to the possibility that this is a problem, though I think better too many than too few. It's important that the AI builds up large armies and attacks you with them, and that it is difficult to conquer the AI players.
Right now, the AI has way too many units. Do you find 120 heavy scorpions kind of excessive (just what I killed that Ix had, but they have more, much much more)? The end result is that the game becomes boring and tedious in the later stages of the game. I can conquer the AI easily but the fun factor is just not there. That's why I call it fake difficulty. I do want the AI to field larger armies than I can but within reason, not the level as currently the case. You usually can't win domination without entirely taking out 2 or 3 AIs (depending on size) with maybe a vassal or two. When each AI has 300+ units, the unit spam that you have to kill to actually win becomes daunting. So in a sense, it is "difficult" to win.
 
I would think that most formal testing would involve AI autoplays? I'd recommend leaving tech trading on for that.

There is a fairly limited scope of things you can test with autoplays. It's very useful for checking for crashes. It can also be indispensable when balancing tech costs. However if you're getting an average idea of how AI's are able to compete with a human in various areas within a handicap level as I'm doing now, you have to actually play the game to get useful information. All feedback on tech costs lately has been positive and that's the primary area that could be considerable different with it on or off, so unless I get feedback that techs need rebalancing with tech trading on (research going too fast), it's no huge worry for me, as I haven't touched any tech costs that I can remember.

I'm a bit bothered by an argument that basically says 'it doesn't matter if we weaken the AI and make it easy to conquer, because most people don't want a tough AI challenge'. That doesn't seem like a good design goal.

You're overestimating the difference I'm shooting for it seems. I'm not setting up the AI to roll over and play dead as you're insinuating :mischief:.

As far as difficulty levels vs. options, the AggressiveAI option is nothing new and I've made only very cursory changes to it. The problem with difficulty levels is they affect a lot more than just AI unit numbers, they change the tech pace, the speed they'll expand at, how quickly they can replenish troops. If someone doesn't want to struggle against the higher economic bonuses to the AI from moving to the next higher difficulty but prefer a more built up AI army to fight at the same time, this gives that flexibility, so I don't see where you're coming from at attacking it, sorry. Especially since increasing the difficulty will still effectively also increase the AI unit count as well, it's not removed from it.

Right, but with a large empire the free unit cap is still pretty large. Unit maintenance is normally pretty low compared to building and civic maintenance.

To start with, just to make sure everyone knows, the AI receives no bonuses to free units, only the cost of paid units. Typically most AIs will reach the free unit cap around a third of the way through a game(once the first expansion wave is done and production capacity rises), maybe a bit earlier, and never go back under unless they lose massive numbers in a war beyond what they can replenish. From there, they are coded to build up invasion and basic defense units up until they hit certain cost percentages, and for some panic/losing war situations to continue to build them even when in financial trouble. They definitely incur unit costs, sometimes significant unit costs, the amount depending on if they have warplans or how they are doing/situation in current wars.

Yes, this is my understanding, but then the issue is new BBAI vs older BBAI, not BBAI vs no BBAI.
Has BBAI really improved that much over the last several months? [If so, great!]

My understanding is that it was built on a version quite some time ago, but I don't think much of anything new from BBAI was merged until Deliverator rebuilt it for 1.9.1. I think we are talking more like a year and a half or two years maybe? Though only he could answer that.

Anyway, enough theorycrafting, I need to do some testing. I will hopefully have a bit of time over the next 10 days or so, and then the weekend after that I should have a good chunk of time.

Lol, that's what I'm talking about. Like I said, I'm aiming for the end of the week. Ideally letting as many as possible test it gives a better look at how the AI is able to compete within the new handicaps against different player approaches/strategies and under different options (as long as I get feedback from players), but before that I have to make sure all the basic AI behavior I'm looking to see is working as intended and that things are balanced, and for that I'd like a few more days to check over it.
 
Transport AI Fix

I've got transports dropping their cargo when threatened over land or once they're over their planned dropoff point (without waiting till the next turn :rolleyes:). I've watched the AI drop three different loads without any problems so far, and think I've dodged the issues with previous fixes.

For David, I did find the code suggested by Sephi over in CvGame::updateMoves(). The best I can tell, that function is called kind of like an update screen function, lots of times constantly. All I can tell for sure is that it is where all AI and automated unit moves are called from, but the exact behavior of unit cycling, and any calls to GvGame::update() that calls this function, is mostly hidden outside of the DLL presumably in the EXE. But given that update() increments a 'turnSlice' variable each time it's run, which is used to track timed turns in multiplayer, I'm thinking it runs a lot at small regular intervals. Can't make much more sense over why it caused problems than that, and I might be totally wrong.

At any rate, I changed tactics from having a loop at the end of the turn (as this was supposed to accomplish), to making a check when selection groups finish their moves each turn. If it's an AI assault sea unit and over it's target plot, it automatically drops them, rather than waiting for the next turn as before, and any AI unit with cargo over land that is in danger (re-used this code with only a small modification) will drop it's cargo. And in both cases I've cleared the mission queue to so it doesn't still think it's ferrying troops.
 
I've got transports dropping their cargo when threatened over land or once they're over their planned dropoff point (without waiting till the next turn ). I've watched the AI drop three different loads without any problems so far, and think I've dodged the issues with previous fixes.
Fantastic! That is hugely valuable. That alone will have a very large impact on the AI's ability to make war.
 
Fantastic! That is hugely valuable. That alone will have a very large impact on the AI's ability to make war.
:)

Early stack building logic 'stuff'

Another 'mistake' the AI makes very often in the early game that a human never would is they tend to create 'attack' and 'attack city' stacks entirely out of infantry before they research techs for melee, thopter, or vehicle units. Unfortunately, this leads them to think they are much more prepared for war than they really are, and it's fairly common to see more 'warlike' leaders like Beast Rabban for instance launch early 'invasions':rolleyes: with only infantry, while neglecting to research better units. This leads to bad economic consequences from getting into a long drawn out war were neither side can take cities, but they sit there and build up units instead of expanding, and tank their economies.

It's also a common thing to see stacks of four or five 'attack city' infantry stacks sitting outside barbarian cities, but they of course have little to no chance of actually taking them, so, they sit there. But yet the AI is happy with itself because it's built it's 'attack city' stack and is 'using' it.

One problem is that infantry were given the ability to have 'attack city' AI, which is probably the biggest problem causing this, they just have no business as city attack units. I've removed this, while also putting in some code to help nudge the AIs towards techs that give real 'attack' and 'attack city' units if they don't have any.

Something more experimental that I've just changed is I want melee units coming into play a little earlier, for both AI and humans, so I've rearranged the prereqs for fanaticism. I'm not really seeing a reason for early melee units to be tied so strongly to religion, I've made both 'Defense Tactics' and 'Faith' OR prereqs (needed both before), so it can be reached by either approach. To compensate a bit, the cost of fanaticism went up 20%. Divine Mandate of course shouldn't be reachable without faith, so faith is added as an AND prereq for it. I also moved 'zeal 1' to faith so that reaching fanaticism by the 'non-religious' route doesn't give the promotion, you'll have to go back and research faith, and in the same vein, monasteries and Razzia Command also need Faith. Remember, this is experimental, so we'll see how it goes and change it back if it causes bad things :mischief:.

Ultimately though, this should result in earlier melee units for AIs which will help a lot with the for-mentioned issues and help them actually take barbarian cities, rather than just look at them funny. It really creates some odd AI logic issues for it to take so long to get anything but Guardsmen. As long as it doesn't make early rushes too easy for the human-- but then again, it might make being the victim of an early rush easier too... :lol:

As a bit of a side bar to that, I'm afraid waterstealers are too weak defending against bladesman if they are coming into the game quicker on average. To balance this I gave waterstealers a 20% mod against bladesmen (not against all melee, that would make them too powerful against crysknife fighters)
 
RE: earlier melee units. It will be neat to test this out - I kinda like the idea of earlier melee units. One suggestion though. Since the tech requirements will now be an OR requirement, why not give Faith - speeds up Fanaticism? Mainly just for flavor (it fits).
 
It already does ;). This follows the vanilla BTS behavior, for every OR tech you have (including the first, which, is a little odd... but that's how it works) you get a 20% research 'mod' towards researching that tech, so if you have BOTH techs like you needed before, you have a 40% mod, so you research it faster.

Since I increased the cost by 20%, that means if you 'short-circuit' it and go for it with just one of the previous prereqs, it costs more than it used to, but if you've already researched both, it essentially costs the same as before.


I really think this is better for the overall gameplay so far after testing a game or two. Like I said, tying the early melee units to inherently 'religious' techs feels very odd in some cases. If you're playing a 'non-religious' game, going for Imperial or CHOAM for instance, it just doesn't make a lot of sense as a player that, oh, in order to build an offensive city attack unit, I've first got to research about... faith? But it does make sense that if you are already going a religious direction that you could develop fanatical melee units without having much concern for defensive tactics as the more 'cautious' houses might.

It railroads the player into a specific path for reasons that don't entirely make sense without some fuzzy rationalization (yes, I realize the tech is called 'fanaticism', because that's the way it was laid out ages ago, but it doesn't cover why it'd be the only way a civ could develop melee units at that point in the game, being able to develop offensive melee units/tactics seems a logical extension after developing early defensive tactics.).

By giving it separate paths, it allows the game to play and feel different when going a religious or 'secular' path, which in turn I think adds to the immersion. It's similar to what I said discussing political office vs. monument some time ago, it's non-immersive when you have to research a tech line that's out of character with the faction you are playing (the way you might have wanted to play them that game), pulling you away from research goals more in line with what you really want to accomplish, if you have to research mysticism early on as the only means of spreading borders. It just ends up feeling like an artificial hurdle, which is not a compliment ;). I really want it to play different going different routes in different games, and this kind of diversity in tech paths, where it makes sense, helps in that cause.
 
Alright, as promised, here's the current version for testing. This is really for those wishing to test out the new AI and balance changes, but it's been completely stable so any one should feel welcome to download and try it. I really want to encourage players to report back how they think the AI is doing in any test games, and let me know what difficulty and options or post save games.

Like all other patches I've released, this can be installed on top of a clean 1.9.1 install or any previously patched version of 1.9.1. It will break save games.

>>> Download 1.9.5 Beta1 Here <<<


Summary of Changes
  • Obviously, all the mentioned AI and related Handicap changes. The biggest ones:
    • Improved AI economic and tech choices
    • Worker AI improvements, especially concerning spice production
    • Transport danger/dropoff AI fix
  • As always, a few small text fixes here and there
  • AIs now value Sapho Juice(if they can build mentats) and ginaz training in trades
  • Siege Units display XP from winning battles correctly in the Combat Odds
  • Siege Weapons further rebalanced (base combat limits and collateral damage reduced)
    • more likely to survive but do less maximum damage
  • Siege Promotions also tweaked to encourage more specialization
    • Drill encourages survivability at the cost of collateral damage
    • Barrage needed for heavier collateral damage, but sacrifices survivabilty
  • Political less overpowered, gives 2 free culture instead of 3
    • It's still one of the best traits to have even with this nerf in my experience, so I think this is a good thing
  • Golden Ages slightly longer
  • Ducal Guard and Order of Agamemnon changes
    • Give defense% instead of combat% in addition to additional combat strength(they shouldn't make super offensive units)
    • Require the unit to have fought 1 or 2 battles respectively to give them to a unit (no fresh recruits)
  • Fanaticism related tech tree changes (earlier melee)
  • Changes to Air Combat experience and interception
    • Air units receive fractional xp for successful bombing and airstrike missions based on interception risk
    • Air units intercepted by ground units can inflict small damage to the intercepting unit and both receive xp based on damage dealt to the other unit in the exchange
  • Ordos TechByConquest Ability
    • Upon capturing an enemy city, they can steal tech points in any researchable tech(s) the other team has based on how much more advanced the other team is
    • The tech(s) chosen are random from the list of possible techs, but amount of tech points received is based on the cost of all techs they have that you don't. So if the first random tech chosen happens to be a cheap one, it's likely you'll research it completely, then the rest of the stolen points will go to an additional tech, including any now researchable since you learned a new tech
    • Or in summary, you don't get screwed if it picks a cheap tech to steal points in instead of an expensive one, no points are 'lost'
 
Sweet!!! Time to cook some steak, eat, and then dominate Dune!! :goodjob:
 
Top Bottom