Get it on...Bang a Gong Diplo thread

[Whomp]

Killercane got married today and will be gone a week. JB told me that Daghdha will be taking the reins for the time being. Daghie a solid player and will get things straight.

 

[BCLG100]

I completly forgot he was getting married now! he even told me about it and i remembered the month but then june just crept up on me like pete townshed in a nursery!

 

[Wotan]

So far Daghi seems to be doing a rotten job at getting the game moving. It seems not to be as straightforward as we were given the impression it was from Killer. Or they are just bickering within the team? If so I would have hoped the mods would enter the scene and try to get them inline. I deeply regret the deal we made with them now. We should have left them on their own, sent a Settler to their resource island and hopefully enter the MA on our own in a few turns time. By setting up ships we should have been able to pop the hut in three turns time or so. And not give away so much for only stupidity in return.

 

[Wotan]

Have played the save. they failed to get Construction from the first GH. Got 50 gold and gave us 25. I would rather we get what comes from GLib than a measly 25 gold. talk to them and make them understand this is not sharing... We are still up 20 turns of research. In a few turns we can give them Currency and add anotehr 4 turns. I guess we want as many turns of research from them in exchange not 25 gold from a GH.

 

[Whomp]

Just a note to catch up...

Rick quit.
Cane's on his honeymoon.
Prince is having what appear to be some serious problems in RL.

Daghie's trying to pick up the TP slack and as you've seen we popped 50g from the hut which he decided of his own accord to share half with you. We think it was a good call.

The next turnset's already around to us, I think the other are fast playing to keep the game pace faster than the diplo pace, and Daghie will play it in about 8 hours.

I would appreciate some feedback on the following topics:
Maps: I don't think it's that big of a deal but this conversation seems to have gone dead.
Sabre: I would like a status on their techs and how you view them in regards to an attampt at the GLib. Have you been able to trade with them to keep them off guard?
Council/Free: What kind of diplomacy have you been getting from them? Silence?

I guess no surprise on Rick.
On the issue of maps I'd like to counter how we get paid for the 5 techs (20 turns) worth of research? With currency it will be more like 24-25 turns. Before we give them a map I think we should hammer out how much in cash these techs are worth.

If they miss construction it's plain to me that we can get construction faster than they can. Should we tell them to run cash and give us a bigger percentage versus what they keep? I think we should also make them aware that we had a better trading opportunity with Saber than GONG but felt this was in the better interest of both teams.

I'm not sure where we're at on techs versus Saber. I think once we hammer out details on how we'll be compensated we should make them aware of our plans to whack Saber.

There's not much to discuss with Free and Council.

 

[Wotan]

At this point in time we have actually gotten diddlysquat from GONG, They have given us gold for Maths but at a discount compared to if they researched it alone. So even that deal in the deal was to their advantage.

As you also state the big issue is the turns of research we have given them. The only way they might even come close to even this out is if they get the GLib and we postpone their edu until we get a few extra techs from it. We have invested heavily into their catching up so a deal just looking at gold/beakers is a no-no. We need a big premium on our investment. We really need to focus on two things, early turns are more valuable than later turns from the growth in all team economies to the leverage of it is not to be comapring a MA tech at 1200 beakers or the like to all the techs we have given them. Tech value is not a good measure at this stage. they have also disrupted our game by a mile from stupid gameplay within their team. that too should be considered. And seed money investments like ours require bigger payoffs than IPO investments... Risk is higher with the uncertainty re. GLib so if we get lucky and score a lot of techs they are still up.

So the only reasonable deal at this time would be, if the get the GLib we get all techs they gain free for our gifts so far. No beaker/gold tallying in this case, it is not an acceptable solution. If they don't get it I have no idea how they are to compensate us for the turns they have saved. They have a huge population from the Pyramids so maybe they can research fast enough to keep up with us in the MA? Don't know. So a preliminary solution would be we go for Feudalism/Mono together. As soon as they get the GLib we can bet on FREE making sure they meet both FREE/Council to limit the techs gained. But hopefully we will gain a few.

Map I would suggest holding off on until they have paid us. A little carrot for them to look forward to when they have gifted us the techs from the GLib. So make sure they understand talking about maps at this point with their terrible performance is absolutely out of the question. We could maybe tell them about the four strips of coastal/sea tiles between the team islands? And that the one in SE and NE connect to us and the SW/NW connect to FREE (I think). So they are aware from which direction to prepare for an attack from FREE.

SABER, should we just tell them S. is still missing several techs in the AA?

And we have more or less been met with silence from FREE/Council.

 

[Whomp]

We'll need to gift them contact at the point Glib is finished. Would it also lower their tech cost on mono or feud if we gave them contact to Free and Council?

I would like to give them Free's coordinates as a teaser to a full map.

I think we should use a few things in the pm.

Hi JB,
I think the most reasonable deal at this time would be, if you get the GLib and we get all techs you gain free for our gifts so far. We'd rather not bankrupt you by requesting cash since we'll still need to put research on full steam in the MA's.

If they don't get GLib I have no idea how you'll to compensate us for the turns but it's a risk we need to take.

We will finish currency in two turns. Cross your fingers that construction comes in this turn! A preliminary MA solution would be we both go for Feudalism/Mono together.

We haven't traded with Saber since we're afraid of accelerating their tech pace. They're still a few techs behind in the AA and we'd prefer to keep it that way. We've offered to trade for their MA free tech which they haven't responded to. Our contact with Council and Free has been sparse. With the lack of trading opportunities there's not much to say.

Whomper

Thoughts?

 

[Wotan]

I would actually talk to them about keeping them in isolation for a while. If we gift right away they will only get what FREE/Council have at that time. By waiting we will hopefully be able to bag a few extra techs. So I cannot see why they would want to have the contacts when the GLib finish? I would rather think FREE/Council would make every effort trying to limit their gains. Why should we (GONG/BABE) help them by sharing the contacts?

FREE is the main threat to GONG, giving them an idea of how they can be reached by fFREE would be a good thing I guess.

 

[Tubby Rower]

well they are taking a significant risk not meeting people just as we are taking a significant risk gifting them a ton of stuff in hopes that they complete the GLib. I think that if we are upfront and explain the big picture they will be on-board.

Or we could tell them that they will be next after SABER if they don't comply. It'll either be a win-win or a win-lose... either way we'll be the ones before the hyphens.

 

[Wotan]

I think it is a good thing we are not the diplo's Tubby...

Or we could tell them that they will be next after SABER if they don't comply

 

[Tubby Rower]

I'm excellent at diplo... Everyone at the table agrees after I'm finished. Mainly because everyone else left to make war plans against me

 

[Whomp]

I guess it boils down to when they'll finish GLib. If it's reasonably soon the lack of contact makes sense. If it's 20+ turns away wouldn't it lower their tech cost a fair amount by having Council/Free contact?

If we did give contact we'd need to have a stipulation that we're exclusive for a long time. No trading contacts, map knowledge and any tech trades need to be discussed.

 

[ThERat]

I don't have a good feeling about that team...Gong seems to be such a mess to me

I would tell them that they could very possibly the first victim of a Free/Council strike. They better get the GLib going, who knows whether that has actually been started

 

[Tubby Rower]

well they might not have realized that anarchy still needs organization. It's just that we use the clear tape instead of the red tape

 

[Whomp]

Here's how I responded to JB.

Hi JB,
I think the most reasonable deal at this time would be, if you get the GLib and we get all techs you gain free for our gifts so far. We'd rather not bankrupt you by requesting cash for the techs we've given since we'll still need to put research on full steam in the MA's.

If you don't get GLib I have no idea how you'll to compensate us for the turns but it's a risk we both need to take.

We will finish currency in two turns. Cross your fingers that construction comes in this turn! If it doesn't we need to figure whether you can finish faster or us after we finish currency. A preliminary MA solution would be we both go for Feudalism/Mono together.

We haven't traded with Saber since we're afraid of accelerating their tech pace. They're still a few techs behind in the AA and we'd prefer to keep it that way. We've offered to trade for their MA free tech which they haven't responded to. Our contact with Council and Free has been sparse. With the lack of trading opportunities there's not much to say.

We'll consider maps after we get confirmation that you're on board with a long term plan. We could consider some verbal suggestions.

Whomper

 

[Wotan]

New turn in and played. We have Construction. And will have Currency next turn.

 

[Whomp]

OK here's the conversation with JB. I think they already kicked off their GA when they got pyramids btw.

Spoiler :

jb1964 says:
jb1964 says:
hey, diving running long and I'm here for about another 20 minutes
jb1964 says:
Us Mono, you Feud, sounds good
Whomp says:
yeah that way you can still build GS
Whomp says:
and then let us know if you want feud
jb1964 says:
Sabre should be running for the GLib and so are we
Whomp says:
they're way behind in techs
Whomp says:
so they may have to
jb1964 says:
That's why they'll likely be building it

Then I throw out a trial ballon...
Whomp says:
maybe we should whack them
jb1964 says:
Whacking is good
jb1964 says:
Seriously, if you have the capacity to give them a spanking then I would be all for it to assure us the GLib and the spoils
Whomp says:
We may have to think about that

Talk about Glib
Whomp says:
do you have an approximate timeframe on Glib?
jb1964 says:
Once Council/Free get to galleons your Lighthouse advantage is gone
jb1964 says:
turn 111
Whomp says:
yes so we figure they're beelining there
Whomp says:
i'd think caravels instead of galleons though...i think
jb1964 says:
Double checked, prior to passing to you we're 10 turns away.
Whomp says:
ok that's huge

Discussion of contact...
Whomp says:
if we wait to give you contact with council and free we may get more techs
Whomp says:
so once it's finished we can give you contact instead of now
jb1964 says:
yes, that's the reward part of that gamble that I was for and now am totally sweating
jb1964 says:
total agreement

Whomp says:
well maybe we need to rattle saber to get them off that gig
jb1964 says:
And if they bump into us we'll let you know

On to maps...
Whomp says:
OK on maps
jb1964 says:
If you do pelase take pictures of teh carnage.
jb1964 says:
OK? or talk about maps?
Whomp says:
I think the concern was whether we were getting duped
jb1964 says:
pfft
Whomp says:
Mostly the Rick debacle
jb1964 says:
Sorry, I think we're all a bit one-dimensional here
Whomp says:
I think people will be appeased by this conversation
jb1964 says:
I would love to set something down that's elaborate and clever, and maybe we could pull it off if needed, but at the moment we're very much tied to your success.

jb1964 says:
And by we I mean you and us
Whomp says:
We've had a good plan so far
jb1964 says:
Ya, no reason to friggin' tank it
Whomp says:
We should decide whether we're willing to partner till the other three are gone
jb1964 says:
So what did you think of Daghie's 25g's
Whomp says:
or 2 or 1?
Whomp says:
that was very nice
jb1964 says:
He thinks like me
jb1964 says:
I felt like horsehockey
Whomp says:
Don't
Whomp says:
It's hard because we both need to explain how this works to our team
Whomp says:
without people feeling like they're getting the shaft

Recommended tabling long term discussion
jb1964 says:
If you want a partnership that's solid through the ages I'm willing to bet the team, Me and Daghie at the moment, are open to that
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
I'm not adverse to saying a certain time or number of teams left or whatever. The key is we need to at least beeline to galleons and cavs
Whomp says:
maybe even steam
jb1964 says:
got dumped
Whomp says:
hehe
jb1964 says:
I wish daghie was on...
Whomp says:
He gets up early in the morning
jb1964 says:
he and others are much better w/ long term strat
Whomp says:
it's ok think about where we would terminate
Whomp says:
my objective would be mano a mano
Whomp says:
that may not work for you though
jb1964 says:
No, that would be just fine
Whomp says:
table it
jb1964 says:
And I we should collaborate until it's just us

JB thinking...engineers hehe...
jb1964 says:
Let me "talk" my way thru this
jb1964 says:
OK, Sabre is only a minor distraction and can be a pain in the ass if they get to GLib first
jb1964 says:
the real power is the Free/Counci alliance
Whomp says:
Yep
jb1964 says:
If we're not united, and armed they'll find a way to crack us one at a time
Whomp says:
We're agreed on that
jb1964 says:
Resources are going to play a major role
Whomp says:
Rik has not made it easy
Whomp says:
My guess is we will be gifting resources to each other
Whomp says:
salt or coal may be scarce...just a thought
jb1964 says:
certainly, I would like to find that the Council/Free alliance has f'ed up resource mix
jb1964 says:
however, we can't count on that and actually should plan for the opposite
Whomp says:
No doubt
jb1964 says:
Well, fate brouhgt the Babes and Gonger together and let's take it to the tribes to last until it's just us two.
Whomp says:

jb1964 says:
It's going to be hard as hell later on to actually make a landing
Whomp says:
you'd think
Whomp says:
marines may be more important than we thinkjb1964 says:
Ok, that must have been a sign because now I do need to leave for the meet. It's going to be a late night.
Whomp says:
ok
Whomp says:
i'll be here if you're around
Whomp says:
bachelor for the week
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
or
Whomp says:

Whomp says:
depending on the subject
jb1964 says:
Why's the wife outta town? Or are you on the road?
Whomp says:
She's with family in Cal
Whomp says:
school's out so off she goes
jb1964 says:
My wife used to do that when the kids were yonger
jb1964 says:
Hey, in the middle of next week I'm off w/ da wife to celebrate our 20th
Whomp says:
nice!
jb1964 says:
So I'll turn the reigns over to Daghie or Bugs or whomever
jb1964 says:
alright, gone

 

[ThERat]

I like the sound of this conversation I have to say...but 10 turns for GLib is very long...what do we do if we capture Sabre's Glib later on?
Gift that city to Gong? For a 2 turns? Would that be possible?

 

[Whomp]

They'd abandon it before giving it up to anyone.

 

[ThERat]

well, what ifwe can take over the whole core in 1 turn? With CxxC spacing that should be possible...and do you think they would abandon the city the moment we drop troops?