Grand Strategy Thread

[peter grimes]

I don't think we can start the casing until after Apollo is complete, right?

In which case, starting research now, or starting research later shouldn't make much of a difference, unfortunately.

 

[donsig]

You are correct we cannot start the casing until we have Apollo (which also means we need to demobilize). I think it makes alot of difference if we continue to stall on our research. As we continue to scramble for rubber it will become more difficult to secure it as SABER (and perhaps eventually FREE as well) will put more and more effort into defending the rubber sources. It seems we will not be able to hold any one source of rubber for an extended period. So we must get to the point where we can use the rubber once we get it for a turn or two. The longer we wait to research, the closer SABER or FREE get to domination.

The question is, do we research space flight or robotics first? (It's been so long but I think these are our two choices.) I think we should start on robotics now and not wait to pile gold - we will find ways to spend the gold we accumulate.

 

[Paul#42]

I'd start some rubber based builds (MAs and Marines) till we lose our (lightly defended) rubber again.

Then I'd like us to hide in a shell, research and build a lot of other stuff (subs, destroyers, transports, Tow, SAMs) for the rest of the time till we are ready to compete for rubber again.

Not sure if I'd like some distraction manoevres like invading former BABEland or other islands - imo it distracts us more then them.


My derivation from the first turns of modern war is that fighter-EWS and subs are our best bet to protect our shores.
I'm not quite sure however if there is any attack (bombers, destroyers, marines) on our coastal towns that would hit our subs or EWS-fighters before our Mech Infs defend...

 

[Yilar]

Aslong as we can keep our hand out of the cookie yar and not throw away money on useless stuff (cruises and such!) I think we should stick to piling gold, we have no need for robotics or space flight atm and we can't do them at full speed anyway, so whats the rush?

Once we take the 1 tile rubber isle we should be able to hold it for a long time, unlike ACI, yes they can take the isle, but not with their current forces!

The way I see it we need a few jets, sams, bombers, subs and destroyers atm. I suggest we build them to the rubber (from the rubber isle) is hooked again. Tows are okay, but I would rather beef up our defence in other areas for a few turns and then produce ma's later instead.

 

[Niklas]

I agree with Yilar - but don't we have the new rubber connected already? I thought I read that in the turn report...

 

[Yilar]

Did we capture the harbor?

 

[Paul#42]

If we keep piling gold I rather see us spend it easily on "unnecessary" stuff.
That's why I'd like to start researching again, just to get going again.

We won't win this game if we stay at zero research.

And if it really is "their" aim to keep us from rubber, they might find different things to do (like fighting each other ) if we stay back.
As long as we have enough MA and subs to scare landings on our mainland away...

 

[Yilar]

We pile gold to research faster later on. Wether we do 50% sci for 30 turns or 0% sci for 15 turns and 100% sci for 15 turns the result is the same techwise, but by stockpiling gold we can use the gold in emergencies.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

We have the harbor, yes.

We have rubber (and ivory) online and are currently making MA in our biggest cities.

 

[tomasjj]

I'd like to see research back on.

If there is a Mexican Standoff here, as General W presumes, the civ that invades us to stop us from launching will most probably lose the game to the third civ. That might put both SABER and FREE off invading us, at least now when the "easy" route to stop us is already taken(meaning the invasion of SCI). Invading our mainland will be a much tougher task, and will cost a lot militarily.

So...I'd like us to research again to creep closer to the launch and thus put the squeeze on the others.

 

[Paul#42]

We pile gold to research faster later on. Wether we do 50% sci for 30 turns or 0% sci for 15 turns and 100% sci for 15 turns the result is the same techwise, but by stockpiling gold we can use the gold in emergencies.

I know.
Mathematically it would be better not to buy any pension insurance policies but rather spend your money in "save" investments. But people tend to rather spend their spare money so pension insurance makes (some) sense.
For how many turns have we been piling cash now?

Money can be lost, beakers not.
Money cannot be stolen other than by conquering towns, right?

 

[donsig]

I agree we should begin researching again. Let's start robotics.

 

[Yilar]

Money can be lost, beakers not.
Money cannot be stolen other than by conquering towns, right?

Money can be spent, breakers cannot. If we start researching we will lock our money down for good. Yes people tend to throw away their money when they got it, but can we really not control ourselfs? Are we that weak?

I'm still looking for a better argument than the fact we can lose money if we lose a city, because if we lose a city on the continent.... then guess what? We most likely die!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

well, FREE may not ever play, so it all becomes irrelevant.

I'm almost to the point where we should warn SABER that a stab is coming - I think FREE is trying to set up to win the game in 1 turn, with the number of settlers they've built.

 

[peter grimes]

The better argument was already stated: Beakers invested are banked permanently. Cash on hand isn't doing us any good until the moment we spend it.

One could make a case for spending all the cash we gain every turn on units - realistically, what else are we going to do with the cash?

What if we keep a 1000g buffer in the bank at all times? That way we can research as much as we like, while still maintaining an 'emergency' fund.

 

[Paul#42]

I'm almost to the point where we should warn SABER that a stab is coming - I think FREE is trying to set up to win the game in 1 turn, with the number of settlers they've built.

Do you think SABER can be so blind and not have an active EWS?
I was surprised ho easy we got their 11-tiler but I'd trust them to be more careful with their main continent(s)...
And they should do some kind of recon to find out what FREE is doing...

 

[Niklas]

I'm completely with Yilar on this. There's no reason for us to make ourselves more of a target by researching techs we don't need before the end. When we turn up research, we should turn it up to 100% and leave it there until the very end.

The only reason I could see us turning up research earlier than that is if we had a plan to complete Apollo and Casing fast, and then bunker down and hope to get by without rubber for the rest of the game. I don't see us surviving that for long though, so I'd rather not do that until we are close enough to the end.

But what "enough" is...

How long will it take us to gather enough cash for a long run to complete all the remaining techs? And when in that spurt could we have Apollo and Casing, i.e. when (and/or how long) do we need to hold on to rubber?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

We got to SABER's island easily cause we sank every ship that they put out as a sentry in that area, and they don't have a jet based EWS running from there - and we took them by surprise. 2 or 3 mechs in cattaraugus and I doubt we get in.


We can start a prebuild on apollo any time we want. All we need is rubber for part of 1 turn once we have apollo, so we can flip a prebuild to the casing, then we can lose rubber all we want. We should be able to take rubber from FREE if we want, just like we did with SABER

 

[donsig]

Can our opponents tell if we've researched robotics? If not then we should begin researching it right away. Even if they can tell, we are still not much of a threat to win without space flight and they can surely tell we do not have that yet. The longer we wait to get the needed techs, the more time SABER and FREE have to deprive us of rubber or win themselves. Heck, they don't even have to keep the rubber from us - all they have to do is keep us from researching!

We've got gobs of armor and we have gold in the bank. If we get the techs at the same time whether we save gold or research at a slower pace then there is really no point in saving tons of gold. Let's set an emergency fund figure as suggested by peter and research at whatever pace leaves us a small surplus. If our mainland is threatened we can halt research without losing the beakers. Let's start moving forward again.

 

[Niklas]

They can see that we get Robotics if they have a spy on us (and pay attention). If they don't, they can't.

The only reason not to research at a leisurely pace is if someone can see that we get Robotics. For Space Flight they will definitely see it, and consider us a target, so once we get SF we obviously need to get Superconductor and Satellites as soon as possible after that.

From my point of view, there are some potential drawbacks with turning up research before we have enough gold to run the full race, and there are no potential drawbacks with waiting. Hence why I favor the latter.