[Guide] Freedom's Science Victory

[beetle]

I was getting thrown by the recent liberty/wide conversation. From the OP:

I usually like 5 cities but if you can 6 is also a good option or if you don't think happiness will be manageable restrict to 4... For policies I suggest Tradition... Goals: Tradition (6)... You should be able to finish tradition...

Liberty looks to be incompatible with this guide. A discussion could be OT for this thread, but that is not happening substantially.

So i ask: tall or wide? wich strategy give the better results? Better in absolute tall or they both could give excellent results, maybe finding an affine map for each of them

See the OP.

I'll assume you want the fastest possible SV. That usually means wide, but on DCL#20-Spain Acken proved you can do a sub 200SV with 4 cities. On ICL-Egypt you might want 5. On DCL#6-Inca you can have 5 observatory cities. imo it is map dependent , but usually you want to go wide for a fast SV.

In context of OP, wide==5 or 6 cities. Usually, on this board, “wide” is short for Liberty with 6+ cities.

Aniway a 5 city (for science faster victory), being a 5 city game needs Liberty politics?

Acken likes 5 cities, per OP. Also per OP, Acken like Tradition, not Liberty.

 

[Acken]

Well when I did this OP my experience was mostly with tradition.

Also no this strategy works perfectly fine for Liberty 8 cities. There is nothing I say that is dependent on city number in the rest of OP (after what I suggest pre-ideology). These are just my preferences.

Liberty can try to go even wider at 7-8. I've had some very decent results going Liberty but ultimately always a bit behind tradition. If someone can prove it competes turn for turn I'd be very pleased to see it in the deity challenges.


The strategy however works a lot better on Deity/Immortal since it relies a lot on AI gold.

 

[stormtrooper412]

yeah, on lower difficulties it may be wiser to go Order because AIs won't be able to fund your space expedition well

 

[Acken]

But you may have a lot of trouble finding coal on low difficulties Freedom works but you have to fund it a lot more by yourself.

 

[i_imperator]

Just used this guide to get a turn 287 victory on immortal with babylon! I choose some of ironfighters settings for his hof attempt, great plains, and pre choosen AI. But this is the earliest science victory ive ever had! Thanks acken!

 

[Nutella]

I love this guide, helped improve my science victory game by a lot. I used to only go Order for SV, not anymore.

 

[Nonevah]

Using this strategy, do you buy up city states all that often in early game? Or do you just bank gold for science building purchases and the parts?
Also, you recommend taking loans in order to buy science buildings, is it really that hard to save up to get one in each city?

 

[Acken]

No you can use your gold as usual for most of the game (getting CS, luxuries, buildings etc). The banking part only matters in the last stretch.

I recommend loans because it's usually hard to still use gold normally and have enough for 4 buildings when necessary. But if you naturally have the necessary gold with your own gpt then it's not necessary to take loans (since you'd basically have to pay interest).

Obviously, longer games mean longer periods of hoarding gold. So your experience may vary.

 

[Nonevah]

On the other hand, doesn't taking those loans put you lower in total gold than if you'd just saved the gold for purchasing the buildings?

 

[Acken]

That is what I'm saying. It's only if necessary. As any real life loan the purpose is to leverage your position and be able to purchase something now that you wouldn't be able to otherwise. If you already have the cash there's no need.

 

[Nonevah]

If it's turn 210, and the AI has still not picked WF as a proposal in the third WC, instead getting the International Games, would you just settle your cultural great people, or would you hope to get lucky the fourth time around?
Also, if you're in a revolutionary wave, would you recommend just dealing with it, checking avoid growth when necessary and trying to get cultural buildings, policies, and a few cses, or do you try to generate some more culture or tourism?

 

[Acken]

You should try to have enough delegates to propose WF yourself. Or generally the player can always propose on the first congress.

Try to get happiness generators if happiness is a problem. Freedom policies, colisseum and zoos and mercantile CS. Getting culture CS all game long and winning the world fair will also make a good defence against pressure.

 

[Nonevah]

Do you have any advice on choosing between order and freedom for science victory, in general? Order if you have hammers, Freedom if you have gold?
Furthermore, is there a guide out there that is specifically for Order Science victory?

 

[Acken]

Freedom always works but requires some preparation and good culture (for commerce), order requires coal and at least 3 good production cities.

 

[joncnunn]

Freedom always works but requires some preparation and good culture (for commerce), order requires coal and at least 3 good production cities.

Not always, use Oxford for ultra early access to Radio so that you will still be first in the world to any ideology.

However, if you don't anticipate timely access to coal, that negates a good portion of the reason to use Order for space race (the science bonus from factories)

As to Order driven Science, pre ideology it would largely be the same.
However, Order has an added incentive to have gone Tradition first (faith based Great Engineers.) OTOH, the number of turns saved via GE rushing spaceparts while extremely effective for the very first one and also significant for the second is minor for the 3rd+.

Post ideology, a generic Order guide suits well, this is because the same level 2 tenet benefiting science helps all victory types the most. And in general you want more great people and more happiness for all victory types.

 

[Acken]

My point with 3 cities was to be able to make SS parts, not about ideology.

 

[beetle]

OTOH, the number of turns saved via GE rushing spaceparts while extremely effective for the very first one and also significant for the second is minor for the 3rd+.

I don’t quite get this, but I am probably doing things wrong. I don’t start building SS parts until I have SS factories, and often not until I have Solar or Nuke plants. So time to build 1st or 6th part is only a few turns different. But even without that, in terms of VC, how does bulbing first parts save turn to the end? What else could cities be building (instead of SS parts) that would be making the game end sooner? So I use the GE on the last SS part. Unlock Engine, boom.

 

[joncnunn]

I don’t quite get this, but I am probably doing things wrong. I don’t start building SS parts until I have SS factories, and often not until I have Solar or Nuke plants. So time to build 1st or 6th part is only a few turns different. But even without that, in terms of VC, how does bulbing first parts save turn to the end? What else could cities be building (instead of SS parts) that would be making the game end sooner? So I use the GE on the last SS part. Unlock Engine, boom.

We are in agreement that the very last GE (or the only one used) should be used for that last spaceship part. Which is the one a few techs away from everything else. Depending upon production this is a 6 - 9 turn savings compared to having hand built that last one as well.

The next highest priority for GE is Hubble. Which will provide a free spaceship factory (and have higher production from spaceship parts.) Using the GE as soon as you get that tech will speed up when your capital can efficiently start hand building spaceship parts.

Between the two of those above, in many cases there will be many cases in which you've already hand built all parts while researching the tech needed for the last part.
And in others you'd fine 1 or 2 turns remaining on those (which would result in a 1 or 2 turns saving if you had a 3rd GE)

I should note though that going the other way (Freedom) also first reserves the cold hard cash for that very last part as well, so with optimal play with either Order or Freedom you are rushing the very last part and so winning the next turn after having reached the last tech needed.

 

[beetle]

OTOH, the number of turns saved via GE rushing spaceparts while extremely effective for the very first one and also significant for the second is minor for the 3rd+.

My apologies. By first one, you meant first GE -- not the first SS part.

 

[Hans Tork]

I watched a few of Acken`s videos. I have to say this is the best guide for winning surely winning on Deity difficulty.

I have been playing only Deity for past two years and previously followed the Trad-Rat-Order-Patronage social policy and 4-5 cities. While it won me 90 % of the Deity games(T290-T310 victories), I faced problems when a runaway Rationalism AI(Korea,Russia,Arabia etc) used to build the spaceship by T280. Often I would get the techs but the time to build the spaceship part would cost me a victory by 3-5 turns.

On the other hand this strategy(especially the social policy tree Trad-Rat-Com-Freedom) guarantees a win by T270 and even earlier. Buying spaceship parts reduces victory times by atleast 20 turns. Also not settling academies and instead bulbing 10 GS for 80K beakers is game changing. I have won all my recent deity games(most of them without reloading even once) using this startegy. This despite the fact I am not a very good player. Also selling cities(all the expos) and buildings near the wee end is another thing I have found useful to get enough gold.

In short this strategy is probably the easiest and sure-shot method of winning in Deity.