Island Conquest v2.2 is now available
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Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
I have tried your mod and I think it is fun.
I do have a couple of comments that you might want to consider:
1) "Japaneese Culture" tech (that's misspelled, sorry it just annoys me)
2) The maps for this scenario have almost no ocean and not very much sea, this limits the value of technologies that allow:
a) boats to not sink in ocean
b) trade over oceans tiles
while the second is not so bad, becuase your scenario is based entirely on island colonization, which makes not being able to trade across an ocean barrier very annoying I think that there should be a map offered w/ more ocean so that there is more advantage to having ocean-worthy ships.
3) Why did you remove the dromon, even if you don't want it as the golden age unit for byzantines it still makes a good flavor unit?
4) I really think a modern or industrial era marine unit should be included in the mod. There are, after all, a number of other land/sea units that would fit in this age and since this is a maritine scenario, a marine would seem like a very natural choice.
5) Should "perfect solider" be "perfect soldier"?
6) Should any pirate vessels be allowed to upgrade?
7) Should all pirate units capable of enslavement create the same unit upon enslavement? I would personally suggest that, since most pirate units are pretty strong, that they enslave weaker units, like maybe the Pirate Ghostship creates Pirate Ships... otherwise the pirates have the chance to eponentially expand their navy.
8) How about adding clipper ships; they were the fastest sailing ships ever built until steam power made them obsolete.
These are just some things to think about, except for the grammatical errors, those really should be fixed.
Heres a tangential remark;
The rules for this scenario might be a good starting place to build a Pirate Scenario.
I also wanted to ask: What is the difference between the ICa_v22_tinyMP.biq and the ICa_v22_tiny.biq files?
I do have a couple of comments that you might want to consider:
1) "Japaneese Culture" tech (that's misspelled, sorry it just annoys me)
2) The maps for this scenario have almost no ocean and not very much sea, this limits the value of technologies that allow:
a) boats to not sink in ocean
b) trade over oceans tiles
while the second is not so bad, becuase your scenario is based entirely on island colonization, which makes not being able to trade across an ocean barrier very annoying I think that there should be a map offered w/ more ocean so that there is more advantage to having ocean-worthy ships.
3) Why did you remove the dromon, even if you don't want it as the golden age unit for byzantines it still makes a good flavor unit?
4) I really think a modern or industrial era marine unit should be included in the mod. There are, after all, a number of other land/sea units that would fit in this age and since this is a maritine scenario, a marine would seem like a very natural choice.
5) Should "perfect solider" be "perfect soldier"?
6) Should any pirate vessels be allowed to upgrade?
7) Should all pirate units capable of enslavement create the same unit upon enslavement? I would personally suggest that, since most pirate units are pretty strong, that they enslave weaker units, like maybe the Pirate Ghostship creates Pirate Ships... otherwise the pirates have the chance to eponentially expand their navy.
8) How about adding clipper ships; they were the fastest sailing ships ever built until steam power made them obsolete.
These are just some things to think about, except for the grammatical errors, those really should be fixed.
Heres a tangential remark;
The rules for this scenario might be a good starting place to build a Pirate Scenario.
I also wanted to ask: What is the difference between the ICa_v22_tinyMP.biq and the ICa_v22_tiny.biq files?
Cabbit said:
1st off, thanks alot for the feedback, this is some of this best stuff i've gotten.
1: I really should change this, i pisses me off too; however, changing it would make old saved games obselete.
2: About ocean and sea tiles... you are correct that it devalues techs and units that may do these things. I felt that being able to attack all opponents equaly was more importiant to get the ball rolling so to speak, it also adds alot of strategy in city placement to allow for passage through continental narrows
3: the dromon hasen't been removed, they are produced by a small wonder, Sea Epic.
4: the marine units are: Mermidon (ancient) and Grenadiers (ind.) as well as pirate raiders.
5: well they aren't really perfect... i guess not, what should i call them Order of midnight or something?
6: pirate ships shouldn't be able to upgrade.
7: I figured that these enslavments were necessary to keep ballence. pirate races cannot build settlers, or a number of high powered and special units. While exponential naval growth is possible, I feel it is unlikley because the pirates and scallawags just don't have the production base to be a big threat.
8: Clippers, hey. Cool I will look into it. I thought a really fast ship should be included but i never added one or any tech associated with tham.
9: the difference between the files is that the MP version is set up for multiplayer and only has 8 playable civs, alliances have been changed to 2 vs. 2 vs. 2 vs. 2. I did these 2 versions b/c i was sick of selecting the correct civs so the game would be ballanced. Also, the MP version has more barbs.
About your tangent, yah, sounds cool, what would a pirate scenario be like? I don't think the civ game is a good pirate engine but i haven't thought it through.
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
what I meant was just that it was probably misspelled.
As far as what a pirate scenario would look like:
It largely depends on if there is some way to enslave aquatic flag units. If there is someway to get that then the objective would be for pirate civs to defeat as many navel units as possible, gather booty (flag unit) until the reach the VP limit.
I doubt the AI would play the game right, so the piont to doing such a scenario would mainly be becuase it would be fun for the human players.
Cabbit said:
How much misspelling and gramer f-ups are there? I assume there are everywhere, I'm not a skilled speller.
On the pirate scenario: I agree, the AI probably would have no clue. I feel that the air and sea units are neglected in civ. For example, there are no naval armies, why not. And have you ever gotten a leader from naval or air combat? I think all combat units (air land and sea) should have another stat to indicate their mobility in combat or something to make the combat system more complex.
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
I don't know how many spelling errors there are, they don't really ruin the game, I just want to piont them out as something to fix if there is a next version
I agree w/ you on navel combat being neglected (I figure that's why you made your mod in the first place), but, unfortunately, although you can add more units and change world maps you can't change certain intrinsic characteristics in the mod. Like as you said, Navels Leaders, Navel Armies, Great Leaders for Air/Navel battles. Another thing is sea resources, there should be a way for players to access stratagic resources in the ocean, (such as oil, whales or pearls could be a luxery, stuff like this) but unfortunately most of this stuff cannot be put into the game.
By the way, I checked that you can have navel flag units, they act wierd, but they work. (you have to have mobile flag units, I think, because ships will not sieze flag units, so you have to move the flag unit to a city then have a land unit sieze it, leave the city, and return) Still, this makes a pirate scenario feasible, I'ld even consider doing it myself, but I don't think I'll have the time to do it in the near future.
I agree w/ you on navel combat being neglected (I figure that's why you made your mod in the first place), but, unfortunately, although you can add more units and change world maps you can't change certain intrinsic characteristics in the mod. Like as you said, Navels Leaders, Navel Armies, Great Leaders for Air/Navel battles. Another thing is sea resources, there should be a way for players to access stratagic resources in the ocean, (such as oil, whales or pearls could be a luxery, stuff like this) but unfortunately most of this stuff cannot be put into the game.
By the way, I checked that you can have navel flag units, they act wierd, but they work. (you have to have mobile flag units, I think, because ships will not sieze flag units, so you have to move the flag unit to a city then have a land unit sieze it, leave the city, and return) Still, this makes a pirate scenario feasible, I'ld even consider doing it myself, but I don't think I'll have the time to do it in the near future.
Cabbit said:
I agree it's unfortunate these things aren't in the game, they should be, they would make the overall experience more fun and modable.
On the pirate scenario: I have also been thinking about this alot and yes, its feasible. I have also been playing the game "Sid Meier's Pirates". This is a cool game (if not a bit too comic bookish for my tastes) and would be a great basis for the map including city placement. If you'd give me a hand I think it would bee cool to make a pirate scenario for multi human players. After making this Island conquest I have been itching to make another in my free time.
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
Honostly I would like to help, but I can't really do all that much. I know how to modify most rules but don't really have the time to put a whole mod together or even half a mod. Do you have any experiance adding flag units to the game? Because if you do, there really isn't anything at all I can help you with at all. (even on this topic there may be other people who know more, but, in actuality, it seems the "capture the unit'" or "reverse capture the flag" options are not all that common in the user created mods I've seen. I know RAR was going to include a "capture the unit" but that they scrapped it; since the guys who made that mod seem to be pretty prolific civ-modders they might know more about it then me; I know stuff about flag units becuase I tried, unsuccessfully, to create a mod based on the idea that you could capture plunder when you took over a city.
Since my basic problem is that I just don't have time to do everything they want to, I'll try to help if I can, but it would probably be best if you don't rely too much on me.
Anyway here's how I think the easiest way to build this scenario is.
Have human and AI civs, you need the AI civs to build lots of naval units.
The human players (as pirates) have warships capable of enslavement, they enslave a unit like "prize ship" or booty. They pirates return the ships to thier capitals to gain $ and VP.
Here are some things that I think you/we need to find out before making a scenario like this:
Can you enslave multiple units?
A quick look at the editor shows the can select mutliple units in the "enslave results in box", but I haven't had time to test if this means the kind of unit you enslave differs from time to time or if it means that when you successfully enslave a unit you actually end up with all the units selected in the box.
To what extent can you get the AI to simulate "realistic" shiping across an ocean. (I mean, can you get the AI to send convoys back and forth across an ocean)
Even if you can't get realistic shipping, what's the best way to get the AI to send a bunch of ships out to sea?
Can immobile units still defend?
What good pirate-like units or new navel units in general are there out there?
That last question will probably take the longest to answer, I think Aaglo might have some good navel units that didn't get used in Island Conquests.
2 questions I know the answer to: You can have multiple flag units but you can't make one flag worth "more" than another in terms of either gold or VP.
If you play reverse capture the flag w/ more than one VP location you can return flags to either VP location.
Here's a unit I don't recall seeing in the mod yet:
And another by the same creator:
This one's a little far out, but in the right tech range:
This thread includes some sea-units:
That completes my review up to page 5 of the "completed units library", but I've seriously got to go get some work done.
Since my basic problem is that I just don't have time to do everything they want to, I'll try to help if I can, but it would probably be best if you don't rely too much on me.
Anyway here's how I think the easiest way to build this scenario is.
Have human and AI civs, you need the AI civs to build lots of naval units.
The human players (as pirates) have warships capable of enslavement, they enslave a unit like "prize ship" or booty. They pirates return the ships to thier capitals to gain $ and VP.
Here are some things that I think you/we need to find out before making a scenario like this:
Can you enslave multiple units?
A quick look at the editor shows the can select mutliple units in the "enslave results in box", but I haven't had time to test if this means the kind of unit you enslave differs from time to time or if it means that when you successfully enslave a unit you actually end up with all the units selected in the box.
To what extent can you get the AI to simulate "realistic" shiping across an ocean. (I mean, can you get the AI to send convoys back and forth across an ocean)
Even if you can't get realistic shipping, what's the best way to get the AI to send a bunch of ships out to sea?
Can immobile units still defend?
What good pirate-like units or new navel units in general are there out there?
That last question will probably take the longest to answer, I think Aaglo might have some good navel units that didn't get used in Island Conquests.
2 questions I know the answer to: You can have multiple flag units but you can't make one flag worth "more" than another in terms of either gold or VP.
If you play reverse capture the flag w/ more than one VP location you can return flags to either VP location.
Here's a unit I don't recall seeing in the mod yet:
HTML:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107074
HTML:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=107558
HTML:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105803
PHP:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87532That completes my review up to page 5 of the "completed units library", but I've seriously got to go get some work done.
Cabbit said:
I think the main problem will be having AI naval units out on the sea. This it a major problem. Too bad I don't want to mad. civ II, you could just make sure the IA had lots of caravans to establish trade routes.
I was thinking and the only way I came up with anything at all on this would be, in a reverse capture the flag game, give the AI flag units that they will want to transport to victory locations they control. What I mean is, the AI all have control over a victory location on their main land mass. The AI would have other cities on islands that could have pre-placed naval flag units they would need to transport to their capitol city to gain vp. Any thoughts, I'm a little sketchy on the rules about flag units and vp.
Oh yah, you copied the links to the units wrong because they are not working. And when I asked for help it was more about what techs to include, gov't and resources, units and things, ya know, I figured no one would want to put it together, thats the $#!@ty part of it
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
the links in the last post work when I paste them into my browsers script; don't know why they don't work for you; anyway the artist for the first two is name Orthanc and has Sid Meier's Pirates, so you might even be able to get him to do a some units especially for the Mod/Scenario.
will this link work?
How about this one?
or
The wierder one by Aaglo
or
Some converted units from age of empires
by the way, I don't really think you need to quote my post unless someone posts in between one of our posts; at this point it seems like we are the only people corresponding on this thread
Edit: As an afterthought
It might not be that bad getting units out to sea; you could set it so the only thing in the AI's build often list is sea units; presumably if the AI has ships it won't just leave them sitting in ports. I've seen the AI attempt a navel invasion of my home continent in a recent game (although they only managed to land a shipful of troops; i got thier other ships before they landed)
I suppose the best thing to do would be mod a game so that the AI has a bunch of ships and builds primarily ships and see if the AI uses those ships or just has 'em sit around in ports.
As far as flag units go:
Since I think the best way to have a pirate victory based on is accumulation of VP through unit capture (becuase pirates conquering the world, building a spaceship, or engaging in any sort of diplomacy seem wildly unrealistic to me) it seems to me that you wouldn't want to give non-pirates access to large number of flag units because then they would be more likely than the pirates to win through "capture the unit" pionts. You might want to get rid of VP from everything besides capture the unit points to make those points even more important. I don't know, I personally never could decide how many points to make everything worth when I tried my own mod.
will this link work?
How about this one?
or
The wierder one by Aaglo
or
Some converted units from age of empires
by the way, I don't really think you need to quote my post unless someone posts in between one of our posts; at this point it seems like we are the only people corresponding on this thread
Edit: As an afterthought
It might not be that bad getting units out to sea; you could set it so the only thing in the AI's build often list is sea units; presumably if the AI has ships it won't just leave them sitting in ports. I've seen the AI attempt a navel invasion of my home continent in a recent game (although they only managed to land a shipful of troops; i got thier other ships before they landed)
I suppose the best thing to do would be mod a game so that the AI has a bunch of ships and builds primarily ships and see if the AI uses those ships or just has 'em sit around in ports.
As far as flag units go:
Since I think the best way to have a pirate victory based on is accumulation of VP through unit capture (becuase pirates conquering the world, building a spaceship, or engaging in any sort of diplomacy seem wildly unrealistic to me) it seems to me that you wouldn't want to give non-pirates access to large number of flag units because then they would be more likely than the pirates to win through "capture the unit" pionts. You might want to get rid of VP from everything besides capture the unit points to make those points even more important. I don't know, I personally never could decide how many points to make everything worth when I tried my own mod.
bucfan76
Chieftain
Not the only ones here, I am here as well, just reading the ideas though - not into scenario development.
J
J
When I get some free time I will test the AI's propencity to bring out their ships. I was thinking that 99.9% of land units would have to go too. Getting VP to work doesn't seem that hard. I'll just set the winning total low and go from there. If you have any ideas about my IC scenario that would be cool too.
Cabbit said:
If the AI ha no reason to take out its ships it will leave them in port. They may bring out a few as scouts to reveal more of the map but in my ecperience the AI builds the empire before exploring the seas. The AI will always move about 4 ships together, for saftey.
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
Oh well, I should check that one out.
Sorry I haven't been around much or making any comments... I've gotten caught up in the MoM: The Sorcerers expansion to MoM and its been taking all my play time
Sorry I haven't been around much or making any comments... I've gotten caught up in the MoM: The Sorcerers expansion to MoM and its been taking all my play time
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
MoM in general is real cool, but not that new. The sorcerers expansion adds quite a bit to the old mod but at this stage still has a number of bugs. The current version though is playable and quite fun.
Cabbit
Part-time Spaceship
Sorry, but I think of it is a more of a scenario the a mod
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