Japanese units always fight at full strength?!??

[padlock]

After examining a few more combat odds, I'm going to amend my best guess formula to the following:

Average damage done by Unit A = Modified Strength A / (Modified Strength A + Modified Strength B) * Damage Factor

Where Damaga factor = 5 + .8 * Hit Points remaining A

That means that a unit with full strength would have a damage factor of 13 and one with 1 life left would have one of 5.8. At half life, the damage factor would be 9.

The Japanese would always have a damage factor of 13.

Additionally, it seems that the damage factor is different (a bit lower) for ranged attacks.

 

[Schuesseled]

Which is my point.

It was an implication from the assumed model; if data doesn't match this, then it means the model is wrong.

which was my point. Don't worry, i wasn't attempting to prove you of being wrong, but the person who posted that formula.

 

[Ahriman]

I think we are violently agreeing with each other.

 

[Schuesseled]

You had better be!

 

[cracked]

Personally, I wouldn't be that surprised if a well trained samurai could defeat a poorly trained group of riflemen. It would not be beyond the realms of possibility in reality.

As it goes, Napolean seem to do a pretty good job of drawing greg out. Admittedly he was encouraged by the viewers to do so in his attempts to attack a city. With the french development of artillery I really would not have expected him to survive that long afterwards. He would have lost the chokehold if he didn't come out and try to attack the artillery and would have been cut down if he pushed forward of his defensive positions.

I'll wager the Japanese traits provide its best advantage when they are technologically equal with its rivals, but I don't think anyone can say whether or not this will be a gamebreaker until they play it. My thoughts are that it probably won't be that significant unless intelligently used.

Militarily, I'd suggest that throughtout the game the French will be more capable due to

1) the strength of their units and
2)ability to unlock social policies more quickly.

e.g.

They should be capable of seizing land more quickly (through liberty policies), gain a tech lead, then take advantage of both in the rennaisance and industrial periods.

Talk of the Japanese being overpowered before we've all played the game thus seems a little premature.

 

[Wuddel]

Also they have UUs that upgrade into each other. The Muskeer has extra strength, so its likely to survive more battles and rack up promotions, this will ease their life as rifleman, and finally they excell as foreign legion units with all that promotions.

 

[bhavv]

Japanese units always fight at full strength.

Germans sometimes get an extra 25 gold when killing barbs, and may capture units that are weaker than warriors.

Iroquois move faster in forests.

Very balanced! ... Not!

 

[Ahriman]

Balance is achieved at a faction level, not a UA level.

Germans appear to get very good UUs (especially the panzer).

Japanese Samurai are good, but the zero seems potentially fairly mediocre.

Similarly, Ottomans appear to have a weak UA, but two very strong UUs.

 

[bhavv]

Balance is achieved at a faction level, not a UA level.

Germans appear to get very good UUs (especially the panzer).

Japanese Samurai are good, but the zero seems potentially fairly mediocre.

Similarly, Ottomans appear to have a weak UA, but two very strong UUs.

How do you know any information on the UUs, and where can I find it?

Meaning what their stats are and what they do, not just the names.

 

[Aegis]

Personally, I wouldn't be that surprised if a well trained samurai could defeat a poorly trained group of riflemen. It would not be beyond the realms of possibility in reality.

Which is reminiscent of this scene in The Last Samurai:


Link to video.

 

[Ahriman]

How do you know any information on the UUs, and where can I find it?

Meaning what their stats are and what they do, not just the names.

http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ5_units.html

We don't know the details for every UU, but we know a lot of them.

 

[Schuesseled]

Japanese units always fight at full strength.

But this also increases thier usefullness at low health, and therefore increases thier chances of dying,(because you'll be putting them in more danger) which is bad

Germans sometimes get an extra 25 gold when killing barbs, and may capture units that are weaker than warriors.

Allows you to build up large numbers of units without producing them, which means you can use your spare hammers to build wonders, develop your economy or culture, plus the german UU's are arugably better than the Japanese

Iroquois move faster in forests.

And i think they can use them instead of roads to form trade routes, improves economy allows for faster and larger expansion around forested areas. Thier longhouse building gives a very nice bonus to production in cities that have large amounts of forests, and thier UU can roam the forests in thier territory and outside wreaking havoc

Very balanced! ... Not!

Does that change your opinion at all.

In the end you can always just play japanese if your playing competitvely, and if you only play single player then consider not playing japanese as a challenge.

 

[civ_king]

Medieval armorers were vampires!


Any faction could do this (assuming damage is done simultaneously rather than sequentially). Japan is just more likely.


Source? This seems like guesswork.
This would imply:
a) Full strength units kill each other in two attacks (on average)
b) Half health units deal half damage.


I like that idea a lot. I hope you are correct.

Trades were generally hereditary so you could be learning what worked and what didn't from your father starting as early as age eight

 

[Ahriman]

Trades were generally hereditary so you could be learning what worked and what didn't from your father starting as early as age eight

I like my explanation better.

Do *you* see a lot of armorers walking around on the street during the day? Well, do you?

 

[civ_king]

I like my explanation better.

Do *you* see a lot of armorers walking around on the street during the day? Well, do you?

Maybe I used past tense for a reason

 

[bernlin2000]

Yea, I wouldn't call it overpowered at all. First off, this isn't Civ 4, and it does not look like there's a direct reduction in strength based on hp (aka, a unit with 2/10 hps fights at 20% strength), so it's not that extreme of a bonus. It also gives you absolutely no economic advantages whatsoever (one of the few that doesn't). And it's not like Japan has an especially early UU to take advantage of it (since Samurai are late medieval, and zeros are late industrial).

I hadn't heard any mention anywhere that this was changing from CivIV (units strength being directly determined by how much hp they had left), so it seems safer to assume it's still the same, unless you heard different somewhere? Their UA seems overpowered, but I think it's likely balanced by other civs taken advantage of their UA in a military fashion, when possible. Otherwise, though, they will have a significant military advantage, I know their unique crossbowman is crazy-good in CivIV against stacks

 

[Louis XXIV]

In the video, the degradation of strength seems less pronounced. It's hard to tell from a couple of fights vs. barbs, though.

 

[Schuesseled]

You should really call it degradation of damage, as strength doesn't alter at all with Hp.

Bu it is certainly less pronounced, from what we saw a spaerman at half health did only 1 damage less than when he was at full health.

 

[adam_grif]

You should really call it degradation of damage, as strength doesn't alter at all with Hp.

Bu it is certainly less pronounced, from what we saw a spaerman at half health did only 1 damage less than when he was at full health.

It's probably Average Damage = HP*Strength


I'd say the Spearman thing was a statistical outlier. In the Japanese game, the pikemen from the city state got absolutely shredded whenever they weren't at full health.

 

[Trine]

Samurai should get absolutely slaughtered by European units, but no they some how are good
(in real life a samurai going toe to toe with a knight would lose horribly)

realism constantly gets sacrificed in Civ

Moderator Action: *snip*

As for the OP, please wait until you actually get a chance to PLAY the game before you start your 'unbalanced', 'overpowered', or 'broken' threads.