Most useless units?

[M3dge]

Thanks to lurking on here and learning loads I am making progress - now winning consistently at Monarch
One thing I have noticed is that I almost - or in some cases totally - ignore certain units, as relatively useless versus other options. Am I missing something with the following (playing BTS, Monarch, Continents, No Barbs, favoring Liz, Darius, Huayana or Augustus):-

Tiremes (just why - noting I am playing without barbs?)
Crossbows (Longbows usually available same time)
Muskets (would never go to war with them, rifles round the corner)
Airships (AI fixates on these but without collatoral capabilities just so weak)
Guided Missile (ditto!)
Ship of the Line (would rather build loads of frigates)
Ironclads (slow sitting ducks)
Privateers (they just seem to get slaughtered)
Bombers (if the AI has fighters. Until then they are IMO overpowered. In reality they would be escorted by fighters, without such cover they just seem to get wiped out).
Tactical nukes (other than cost why not just build ICBMs?)

Cheers!

 

[twansalem]

Triremes: You've basically answered your own question here. Their primary use is to protect your seafood resources from barbarians. In the rare cases that it makes sense to make early naval assaults (usually only on water heavy maps), they are useful as escorts for your galleys.

Crossbows: Yes, longbows are the best city defense unit of the era. But that's not what crossbows are for. Build a few crossbows for your offensive stacks. They'll defend your stacks against enemy macemen better than any other unit. They also slice through pikemen like hot butter.

Muskets: Situational, but can be very useful if you lack metal, but get attacked before you get to rifles.

Airships: I'm not a huge fan either, but I'm sure more advanced players than I could give you uses for them.

Guided Missiles: I only build them if I start seeing enemy destroyers and I have no oil. It's certainly not optimal, but if you unleash a bunch of guided missiles on a stack of enemy destroyers, you can often finish them off with highly promoted frigates/ironclads/ship of the line.

Ironclads: I don't build them very often either, but having a few sitting around can be helpful in cutting down enemy frigates if you get attacked by sea. They also can be OK for defending seafood resources.

Privateers: I'm not a huge fan either. I usually only build them if I lack for iron (meaning I can't build frigates) and I'm playing a watery map. Other players on here love them though, so I'm sure you'll get some recommended uses from others.

Bombers: Can be very useful in cutting enemy stacks approaching your cities down to size, but I tend not to build a lot of them either. Using them efficiently makes modern warfare tedious and micromanagey. Good unit, but not a fun unit.

Tactical Nuke: If the AI has built SDI, tactical nukes have a better chance of not being shot down. They're also a lot cheaper than ICBMs. I personally think ICBMs are more fun, but tactical nukes really are the better unit.

 

[sampsa]

Crossbows are a strong unit, especially with Sitting Bull. Airships rock, too.

 

[M3dge]

Crossbows are a strong unit, especially with Sitting Bull. Airships rock, too.

Thanks Sampsa - can you elaborate? How would you use them?

 

[M3dge]

Crossbows: Yes, longbows are the best city defense unit of the era. But that's not what crossbows are for. Build a few crossbows for your offensive stacks. They'll defend your stacks against enemy macemen better than any other unit. They also slice through pikemen like hot butter.

Privateers: I'm not a huge fan either. I usually only build them if I lack for iron (meaning I can't build frigates) and I'm playing a watery map. Other players on here love them though, so I'm sure you'll get some recommended uses from others.

.

Thanks! I think my lack of experience with Xbows may be the issue, I don't tend to find myself at war in this era - I often go very early, then garrison and tech for rifles and steel. I want to get better at Medieval war though as this is needed for really early wins - so will look to add Xbows to my stacks.

Privateers - I look forward to hearing from the fans!

 

[Tatran]

Explorer.

 

[Lexicus]

Triremes are more useful when you're playing with barbs, but definitely can be worth it in some circumstances - sinking enemy ships full of units is one of my favorite things to do in Civ ).

Crossbows are pretty helpful not as city defenders (though I usually put at least a longbow, pike, and crossbow in cities I think might get attacked) but as specialized anti-melee units.

Muskets rock, mainly because they are not mounted or melee and as such don't suffer against pikes, maces, or crossbows.

Airships can be very strong, using them before your stack attacks can enable much more siege units to survive.

Guided missiles are widely considered a waste of hammers though they are fun to use they are definitely not optimal play.

Ironclads are pretty weak, I'll sometimes park a couple on sea resources if the AI's being a nuisance but by and large I avoid them.

I never really use Privateers. Situationally they can be useful (if you get them early enough) but as I play mostly on Pangaeas....

Bombers can be very powerful but getting them before the AI has SAM infantry/fighters gets harder the higher your difficulty level. I used to build lots of them on Prince and below but on Monarch/Emperor I find the AI typically has enough anti-air power to make life very difficult for them. Artillery is likely a better investment.

Tactical nukes are actually greatly superior to ICBMS since they do the same damage for about half the cost IIRC. Their limited range is usually not much of a problem though ICBMs are better when you really want to paste an AI (this is again not really necessary for optimal play, if going for straight min/max gameplay and no "fun factor" tactical nukes are the way to go).

As Tatran points out explorers are probably the real MVP here

 

[Seraiel]

Crossbows are a strong unit, especially with Sitting Bull. Airships rock, too.

Thanks Sampsa - can you elaborate? How would you use them?

SB has a UB that gives extra XP on Archery Units and he can bulb Machinery very early because he's PHI and can i. e. Oracle MC, then chop-whip a Forge and a few turns later he has a GE and can bulb Machinery. As he's also PRO he again gets 2 extra promo's, this is called the SB XBow rush.

Airships are strong units because no unit can attack them at that time and even if they only scratch the top defenders that's enough to i. e. raise the chances of a Cavalry from 60 to 90%.

Sry for taking this question away from Sampsa ^^ .

 

[elitetroops]

I think Privateers are mainly for harassing AI you are not at war with. You can pillage their seafood and blockade their coastal cities. However, for this to work you need to get them early enough, which means you need a tech lead. So the question is, if you are already ahead in tech, what's the point with spending resources to slow down the AI when you could instead spend resources on taking cities from that same AI. This is why I'm no big fan of Privateers.

Airships are awesome, as Seraiel and Sampsa already pointed out. Also good for getting vision on all of the opponent's lands before attacking, or to keep an eye on the ocean for incoming enemy naval invasions. Not that those usually pose any serious threat anyway...

Muskets are indeed quite useless. Janissaries can be quite awesome if you get them early enough, as can Oromo warriors. Musketeers can be good for cuir stack defense.

 

[M3dge]

Explorer.

Ah yes, I forgot that waste of air sorry hammers!

 

[M3dge]

SB has a UB that gives extra XP on Archery Units and he can bulb Machinery very early because he's PHI and can i. e. Oracle MC, then chop-whip a Forge and a few turns later he has a GE and can bulb Machinery. As he's also PRO he again gets 2 extra promo's, this is called the SB XBow rush.

Airships are strong units because no unit can attack them at that time and even if they only scratch the top defenders that's enough to i. e. raise the chances of a Cavalry from 60 to 90%.

Sry for taking this question away from Sampsa ^^ .

Awesome, I will try both of these. Glad you responded, it is the detailed help given by the likes of you and elitetroops that has got me winning on higher levels

 

[rschissler]

Explorer.

I always build about 6 Explorers and give them the Medic ability. They are very cheap to build and have a movement of 2, so you can easily get them to your healing units, to heal faster.

 

[M3dge]

Muskets are indeed quite useless. Janissaries can be quite awesome if you get them early enough, as can Oromo warriors. Musketeers can be good for cuir stack defense.

Ah, the first real disagreement from respondents (see lexicus comment above). I get the power of the modified muskets as UUs, although as you say it is time dependent; I just usually find that well promoted maces can fill the short void between gunpowder and rifle, which I usually beeline (followed by steel).

 

[M3dge]

I always build about 6 Explorers and give them the Medic ability. They are very cheap to build and have a movement of 2, so you can easily get them to your healing units, to heal faster.

Interesting idea, when I get promotions for my early scout (huts, or the rare times I play with barbs on) I always go for medic promotions for that reason. Had not thought of actually building one (or an explorer) as a super medic..what other two move units can take the medic promo? Can't Cavalry?

 

[rschissler]

Interesting idea, when I get promotions for my early scout (huts, or the rare times I play with barbs on) I always go for medic promotions for that reason. Had not thought of actually building one (or an explorer) as a super medic..what other two move units can take the medic promo? Can't Cavalry?

Yes Cavalry can go medic, but cost of 120 vs. 40 for Explorer. I'd rather use the second promotion on Cavalry for 25% against gunpowder units.

 

[Seraiel]

Muskets are ok because they can be drafted and together with Cannons they slay everything. Rifles are a long way if going for Steel so it's either Rifles only or Muskets + Cannons. Personally I like Muskets + Cannons more but always seem to go for Rifles because I like drafting them. Muskets + Cannons is a little stronger but also slightly further away and needs a little more pop.

 

[Lexicus]

Ah, the first real disagreement from respondents (see lexicus comment above). I get the power of the modified muskets as UUs, although as you say it is time dependent; I just usually find that well promoted maces can fill the short void between gunpowder and rifle, which I usually beeline (followed by steel).

Muskets rock was a bit of an overstatement. I don't agree that they are useless. They are helpful but not decisive game-winners.

It also depends on your tech path and some other stuff as well. I never used to go for curs very quickly, I would usually get Steel first but now that I usually get gunpowder either right before or right after getting Military Tradition I build fewer Muskets (which makes sense because why would you build muskets when you can build the almighty curs?).

 

[Lexicus]

Explorers for medic is an interesting concept, but I think building a bunch of medic units isn't that good of an idea. The only units you want with medic are usually going to be GG super medics, and usually for me those are chariots or horse archers that just never get upgraded.

 

[elitetroops]

Muskets are ok because they can be drafted and together with Cannons they slay everything. Rifles are a long way if going for Steel so it's either Rifles only or Muskets + Cannons. Personally I like Muskets + Cannons more but always seem to go for Rifles because I like drafting them. Muskets + Cannons is a little stronger but also slightly further away and needs a little more pop.

Wouldn't you rather have CR maces than muskets with cannons, which you later can upgrade to CR rifles? Doesn't matter much what units you use to clean up after cannon collateral. I know drafting maces is not an option with cannons, so you are kind of stuck with muskets there, but that doesn't make muskets good. To me it seems more like a disadvantage that the musket exists in that situation.

 

[Lexicus]

Wouldn't you rather have CR maces than muskets with cannons, which you later can upgrade to CR rifles? Doesn't matter much what units you use to clean up after cannon collateral. I know drafting maces is not an option with cannons, so you are kind of stuck with muskets there, but that doesn't make muskets good. To me it seems more like a disadvantage that the musket exists in that situation.

Muskets make a good compliment to CR maces in my experience.