My economy doesnt support research

[Kattelatte]

Hi

I read a review of this mod on a general gaming webpage a few days ago, and thought id dust off my Civ boxes again, having never played the game a whole lot in the first place

Having played all civ games, and their offspring (AC, colonization, etc) ive never really had problems making money, sure i have had to turn down research from 100% to generally around 50% to break even, but making money has never been a PROBLEM

Im at around turn 200 in my first FfH2 game now, playing on the 4th difficulty. In the beginning i had 100% on research, but as the game has progressed my expenses has grown, and i have gradually had to turn research down so i dont loose money. Now i am at 10% research, and -5 gold pr turn, and i dont even break even with 0% research...

Whats the deal with this ? How do you make money in this mod ? I have had workers digging roads covering my entire empire so far, but exploring cities it doesnt seem like gold is created in roaded tiles the city is occupying...
Nor do i have any building that produce money

 

[Methuselah]

Cottages. Lots of cottages.

Or, lots of farms and run aristocracy and agrarianism.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

do you have lots of cities? research festivals for markets, they add 3 gold and subtract 1 beaker a turnfor eachcityu you have built them in. dd you research education for villages? farms also work if you run aristocracy (available at... feudalism, courthouses? i forget) and agrarianism (at festivals), they would provide 1 food 2 gold and take away a hammer, one food gets added if you reseach sanitation.
Edit: ninja'd

 

[Micky Onimusha]

Whats the deal with this ? How do you make money in this mod ? I have had workers digging roads covering my entire empire so far, but exploring cities it doesnt seem like gold is created in roaded tiles the city is occupying...
Nor do i have any building that produce money

Road-Commerce was only in Civ3 iirc, not at all in Civ4.

The most basic source of money in the game is the Cottage improvement, which slowly overtime turns into a Hamlet, Village and then Town, increasing in its output with each level. Sticking with just improvements, you've also got Mined Gold resources and Plantations (which go with Dye, Incense, Silk and some others). Also, any non-forest improvement next to a river gets +1 .

Buildings like the Market (at Festivals) adds a flat +3 too, which won't be put towards your Science even if you run 100% Science. The Runes of Kilmorph religion really helps money income too, since every city with it earns +1 provided it's your state religion, and its temple also provides +2 .

There's other more complex things available (the aforementioned Aristocracy+Farms for example), but those are the easiest ones at hand. Just one final question though. Which civics are you running? If you're running Pacifism, then stop would be what I'd say. It's +1 for every military unit you own, which can be a huge drain later on in the game.

 

[heisenberg]

Aristocracy and City-States are your friends once you have a decently large-sized empire going. Maintenance would be potentially crippling otherwise.

 

[Kattelatte]

I dont have any new civics

All the techs i have researched so far has been to unlock new resources, like copper and horses. I thought this was what i "had" to do since the warrior/beastman basic unit is so intensely pathetic (i lost 6 of them trying to kill 1 barbarian white bear...) and the only other unit i could see in the tech tree fairly close to the beginning were the ones you get when you unlock horses

I am a city spammer , always have been ever since i played Civ1 and learned the value of that there. The tactic is basically to make settlers and only settlers everywhere for hundreds of turns, while quickly teching up with 100% research (since theres no upkeep from cities) then crushing the enemies with superior technology (my record was getting gunpowder in 2800 BC)

I had to revise this tactic a bit for FfH and started turtling a bit too, with multiple beastmen in every town and walls, while teching for offense. I guess i should have gotten more basic techs first as i cant even create those hovel improvements yet...
Not sure what to do now, i have 0% research, and will run out of money in 2 turns (but at least 1/4 of the map is covered in my cities !)

 

[Kenjister]

City spam is your problem. In FfH the basic government civic give penalties for the number of cities you have, so city spam is not a viable tactic UNLESS you have the Cartography tech. Cartography allows the City States civic, which cuts down your maintenence to almost nothing. Education is definitely needed for the cottages, especially since the Doviello are one of the research handicapped civs.

It's good to have something better than warriors, but remeber in FfH experience is much more important than the upgrade to Axemen (Sons of Asena). That's why the polar bear was so hard to take down. You're also playing as Doviello so you don't want to wait for conquest. Just round up 6-7 Beastmen and go conquer! Razing is a good idea unless its a good city cite though. Have fun!

 

[heisenberg]

Carto is a very early tech with only exploration as a prereq. If you're starting to suffer from huge maintenance costs due to having lots of cities, change to city-states earlier to offset some of that.
With City-States, you could practically keep your research at almost 100% with a market in every city (at festival tech).
And as mentioned earlier, Runes of Kilmorph brings in a large amount of gold if you spread it widely throughout your cities.

 

[nealhunt]

A big help to a REX/city spam strategy is trade. Trade and Currency techs each add +1 trade route per city. It's not huge, but definitely noticeable and it automatically scales for the size of your civ.

If you have coastal cities, the Great Lighthouse is not hard to get if you aim for it and it provides +2 routes per coastal city (and it doesn't obsolete). Lighthouses add +1 route as well. Harbors are available earlier and cheaper than in vanilla civ and provide the +50% boost to trade.

Also, if you can found or at least adopt Runes of Kilmorph as your religion, each city with RoK adds 1 gold, and each RoK temple adds 2. That goes a long way towards maintaining a REX strategy. A handy tip on that is that priests can be sacrificed to automatically spread the religion and build a temple at the same time. That means you can sac a priest for a permanent +3 gpt.

 

[avalonnn]

If trade isn't helping you -- perhaps you lack trade routes because you're at war with every civ you've encountered? Even the most warlike civs need to be at peace with at least one other civ.

 

[Kattelatte]

I got the ball rolling now

I had to spend 70 turns researching huts at 10%, but have now began planting them everywhere and am at 30% research now, and climbing

City states, when i hover mouse over it in civic menu, doesnt seem to decrease my upkeep at all

 

[vale]

That is because civic upkeep and city maintenance are separate entities. You won't be able to predict the results of switching to City States without switching. Just make the switch now until you can switch to Aristocracy.

 

[Yarnosh]

Having played all civ games, and their offspring (AC, colonization, etc) ive never really had problems making money, sure i have had to turn down research from 100% to generally around 50% to break even, but making money has never been a PROBLEM

If you have to go to 50% research, you're probably expanding too fast. If you're at 100% and still making money, you're probably not expanding fast enough. Personally, I like to stay around 80% or higher. And I'm almost always way ahead of the AI in tech. (Prince/Monarch levels).

Im at around turn 200 in my first FfH2 game now, playing on the 4th difficulty. In the beginning i had 100% on research, but as the game has progressed my expenses has grown, and i have gradually had to turn research down so i dont loose money. Now i am at 10% research, and -5 gold pr turn, and i dont even break even with 0% research...

How fast are you expanding? How many units? What civics?

Whats the deal with this ? How do you make money in this mod ? I have had workers digging roads covering my entire empire so far, but exploring cities it doesnt seem like gold is created in roaded tiles the city is occupying...
Nor do i have any building that produce money

Head for Education and build cottages ASAP. Also get cartography and switch to City States if you have more than 4 cities. And markets. You'll want to get markets ASAP. +3 C per city helps a lot.

Other than that, it isn't that much different than vanilla, except maybe a little slower to get growing big. Spam cottages and keep expansion in check.

 

[Cliftor]

I've heard that, because of how the game rounds commerce in Civ4, it's better to try to min/max when possible (IE, run a 0% research for a few turns to get money, then run at 100% and a deficit).

Is this not true? Someone told me over the course of a game quite alot of commerce is wasted by the game rounding down when one runs at 70% or 80%.

 

[PekkaR]

I've heard that, because of how the game rounds commerce in Civ4, it's better to try to min/max when possible (IE, run a 0% research for a few turns to get money, then run at 100% and a deficit).

Is this not true? Someone told me over the course of a game quite alot of commerce is wasted by the game rounding down when one runs at 70% or 80%.

Kind of. It's true that early on is when the rounding counts the most, and depending on worked tiles lowering research slightly during the first 50+ turns will probably result in 1 lost research or commerce per turn. Sometimes the rounding is to your benefit, at some specific percentage.

If you get no money from Tribal Villages early on, another consideration is that you'd really like to have at least 50 gold in case you get some nice events. On the other hand though, you may want specific early techs ASAP so it's hard to find a good time to lower research and accumulate money.

Switching between 0% and 100% research is a medium level of hassle between ignoring the rounding and trying to always find an optimal ratio when worked styles change or cities grow. The effect of the rounding becomes more insignificant as your civilization expands.

 

[Deon]

I've found that you should have either 4-5 cities, run god king and have a lot of specialists in your capital or (I prefer it more) have a lot of strategically placed cities and run city states.

Anyway you'll need a few cottage cities and/or 1-2 money resources (gold/vine) near each city.

Also great bards help alot (+ culture to get more territory/resources and +3 gold).

Go for festivals early and gain markets and a great bard.

 

[WarKirby]

City States!

Also markets, and build elder councils for some free research.

Prioritize harnessing nearby economic resources like gold, silk, gems, etc, over les important things like food to begin with.

A good early research path is:
Agriculture
Calendar
Crafting
Mining
Festivals
Exploration
Ancient Chants
Mysticism
Education

Though it does depend on what resources you have nearby to start with. Also, send scouts and such out to find goody huts. They very frequently ggive some free gold, which can allow you to run a defecit for a while to do some research.

And don't expand too fast!

 

[Nikis-Knight]

Yes, it sounds like your problem is civ 4 in general, which punished rapid expansion with increasing city maintenance. If you are more used to prior editions it will throw you off. In addition to civic which reduce distance or number of cities maintenance, there are courthouses at the Code of Laws tech that will help reduce the cost of any city that they are built in.
Until you get something like that, or at least markets or city states civic, keep a lower number of cities. 3 or 4 is probably good, although another one or two won't kill you, it;s better to try to save those a bit. If you can arrange your city placement so that there culture will block rivals from your locations, you can hold off without fear.

Or if you really need gold quick, you can consider a limited war where you run in and pillage the ai's improvements for some quick cash.

Oh yes, and in the future don't be afraid to move your starting settler, they have good vision and mobility, and starting a few turns later is very worthwhile if you will start near a river or gold or incense, etc.

 

[hegemonkhan]

greatest lesson or thing to know for playing FFH2:

QUALITY > quantity

 

[Kattelatte]

I have 1/4 of the map covered in my cities now, but the game has stagnated

The AI is far too fond of making defensive pacts and vassals, so if i declare any wars the entire set of AI players declare back on me...

I cant get any other victories either since i cant get any correct mana nodes to build stuff needed for other victories

Bit bummed out by this mod atm tbh

First my game completely locks down due to the weird economics, and now its locked again because i cant declare war on anyone

Wish the AI at least would war a bit between themselves

Anyways im just venting

Thanks for the help