New Natural Wonders?

Ok, i will not spam this thread with my knowledge. But maybe i have to write that there are some strong proofs, that Atlantis is more then a legend.
So if you are willing i can send you a lot of details, that might change your opinion.:lol:
Remember when the ice age was ending and what happened to this time, and you will find your answers.
 
Ok, i will not spam this thread with my knowledge. But maybe i have to write that there are some strong proofs, that Atlantis is more then a legend.
So if you are willing i can send you a lot of details, that might change your opinion.:lol:
Remember when the ice age was ending and what happened to this time, and you will find your answers.

Sure I wouldn't mind hearing and reading articles. At the very least it will provide me info about theories floating around. If you want message me. I doubt it would sway me though.
 
Also its silly how many people still think Atlantis is fantasy stuff.

On the same basis that it's silly how many people are objecting to the real-world wonder El Dorado appearing in the game, I suppose.

BTW a lot of historian researches believe in Camelot, not as the Stone City, more like a wood camp.

Any particular historians? Camelot is known to be fictitious - it was never even mentioned in the Arthurian legends until the French romance period of the 12th Century, and those Arthurian legends are the only sources that exist for Camelot. It's certainly been speculated that Arthur may have existed as an early Romano-British leader, but there's no reason to imagine he would have been associated with any settlement with a name resembling Camelot, whatever it was made from.

Prester John also would like a word with you. Legendary is all it will remain. Why would anyone take it as real without proper evidence... Camelot to a degree as an actual location is much more reasonable. I just don't want fantasy-ists to continue to spin history for their benefits of "ancient aliens" etc. (Personally annoys me a lot because it ends up a degradation of the accomplishments of man and particular places "considered primative" to the west)

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A legendary landmark at most. As a civ? No way, please no...

A guy called Gavin Menzies who wrote a popular (except with archaeologists) book speculating that China discovered America in 1492 recently lost the plot completely and decided to prove Atlantis existed - maybe that's why it's come back into vogue.

As for comparisons with Troy, the Illiad was notionally based on a historical event. There's no evidence that Plato's account of Atlantis was intended as anything more than a thought experiment, in much the same vein as James Hilton's invention of Shangri La to describe an ideal in fictional form. During the classical period itself (i.e. the period contemporary with Plato's original account), Atlantis was considered to be a fictitious construct; even within the context of his story Plato describes it as being a second-hand legend that Solon heard from the Egyptians (why he would learn in Egypt about a civilisation he considers most notable for losing a naval war with Athens is, as far as I know, left unclear). The fantasy of an island sinking in a single day was just a device to explain within the context of the story why the civilisation left no remains for Plato's contemporaries - again, much like the narrative device of Shangri La, a place that's characterised by a mountain nearly the size of Everest where no such mountain exists in reality, which is explained away by claiming that it can only be found if you're guided there.
 
The thing about Plato's account that really strikes out the theory for me is this: he says that the Atlanteans controlled most of Europe and Africa as far east as to border Athens and Egypt.

We have found all sorts of evidence of historic and primitive humans all over those landscapes dating back tens of thousands of years. A civilization as ubiquitous and advanced as the Atlanteans should've left distinguishable and consistant evidence of an intercontinental empire. But no. We only find evidence of crude hunter-gatherers followed by increasingly more sophisticated agriculturalists leading up to the historic groups we know from ancient contemporaries.

But I digress. No more fantastical Natural Wonders please.
 
I would like krakatoa to give a different bonus because it almost never spawns in an area that is in or near settleable lands.

I would also like a natural wonder that damages units, and the ability to set traps on tiles.
 
The thing about Plato's account that really strikes out the theory for me is this: he says that the Atlanteans controlled most of Europe and Africa as far east as to border Athens and Egypt.

I don't think Plato himself made any claims to the Atlanteans being especially advanced, rather this is a recent neologism - indeed it's the entire thrust of the narrative that they were beaten by the Athenians (one obvious red flag being that Athens would have to had existed 9,000 years prior to Plato's account, which we know not to be the case).

The key problem is not 'evidence' or lack of anything that can be constructed to invent evidence, it's that there's nothing to provide evidence for in the first place because Atlantis was only ever intended to be a fictional construct. You could tell me you had all the evidence in the world that Mordor existed, but since I know for a fact that Mordor was invented by JRR Tolkien, I know a priori that whatever 'evidence' you can present is no such thing.
 
The key problem is not 'evidence' or lack of anything that can be constructed to invent evidence, it's that there's nothing to provide evidence for in the first place because Atlantis was only ever intended to be a fictional construct. You could tell me you had all the evidence in the world that Mordor existed, but since I know for a fact that Mordor was invented by JRR Tolkien, I know a priori that whatever 'evidence' you can present is no such thing.

Really?
You mean Plato created Timaios and Kriteas as a great lie . For sure Plato was a
brazen-faced liar.:sarcasm:
Also he was a great Storyteller, he fictional created a great continent behind Atlantis, and was aware of the tropical zone were bananas grow. Really a accomplished liar.
And when we are talking about J.R.R. Tolkien, so he created Numenor, and this is the biggest evidence that Plato was a bloody liar. That is the best logic.
 
Last I knew, Atlantis was "real" in the sense that it may have been a fictional/mythologized a real incident (see Troy), with many changes to turn the original story into an allegory (not to mention that funky date thing going on). So, yes, it may have been technically real, but not by Plato's account.

As far as it goes, that is for the realm of modders to place legendary nations, especially given how far the stories stray from the truth (see El Dorado, where a king of an indigenous Colombian confederacy became the ruler of a golden city).
 
Really?
You mean Plato created Timaios and Kriteas as a great lie .

All of Plato's Dialogues use near-contemporary historical figures as mouthpieces. Hence Socrates showing up a lot. No one has any idea how much of what Plato attributes to Socrates was what Socrates genuinely said or would have said in those circumstances. In the specific case of Criteas, there's doubt over which Criteas he intends his character to be; it's generally considered not to be the politician who was one of the Thirty Tyrants, even though this is the Criteas who would have been contemporary with Socrates.

For sure Plato was a
brazen-faced liar.:sarcasm:
Also he was a great Storyteller, he fictional created a great continent behind Atlantis, and was aware of the tropical zone were bananas grow. Really a accomplished liar.

Why wouldn't he be aware of the tropical zone? The Greeks knew of areas at least as far south as Ethiopia, which borders the eastern portion of the African humid tropics. Bananas would notably not have grown in that part of the world at that time, and certainly not 9,000 years before Plato - the very earliest date proposed for banana domestication is approximately 8000 BC, and it's more likely closer to 5000 BC. Bananas were probably first domesticated in Papua New Guinea, and naturally occur in the Asian tropics.

This is a moot point in any case, as nowhere does Plato appear to describe the fruit of the "orchard trees" that he mentions, and there seems no reason to imagine he either knew about or was referring to bananas. Nor does he make any obvious reference to the tropics - the only reference to the climate is "making use of the rains from Heaven in the winter, and the waters that issue from the earth in summer, by conducting the streams from the trenches". While the tropics have a wet-dry season cycle, so do the African subtropics with which the Greeks would have been most familiar - indeed the Nile Valley civilisation was built on this cycle.

If you actually go back to the original text, it is very light on detail, describing only the dimensions of the island (which are plainly incorrect - I ran across one piece noting that if an island in the west Atlantic had been that size, it would have extended to Mt Cameroon), its formation as a series of concentric circles (created directly by Poseidon, incidentally, a true mark of the story's historical reliability), and the fact that it has some mountains in the south. It mentions that animals and cultivated fruit were plentiful, but describes neither. Most of the modern elaborations attributed to it - such as bananas Plato almost certainly had no knowledge of - appear to be altogether absent from Plato's text.
 
Moderator Action: Back on the main topic, please, rather than a tangent. Less Plato, more discussion of different potential new natural wonders.
 
Now that ships can be melee units, Rock of Gibraltar should offer super sea city defense. There should also be CLIFFS of lesser value to build coastal cities on.

Is there a major HARBOR that would be a good natural wonder? I would love to see that. I was thinking about sea life today and how varied and awesome it is. There could be more of a natural wonder to represent that... especially in the colder regions. Ice Shelf? I think I already said Great Glacier.

Maybe a mountain that would make a killer ski resort?
 
How about Cliffs of Insanity that are immune to naval assault unless the attacker is a Privateer and has the Hemp resource?
 
Ooooh... I like the idea of wonders based on Princess Bride... what are the woods called?
 
Now that ships can be melee units, Rock of Gibraltar should offer super sea city defense. There should also be CLIFFS of lesser value to build coastal cities on.

My first thought when I read this was the Cliffs of Moher in Ireland, but there aren't any cities built along the edge of it, just a small tower.
 
Atlantis: 1-tile island that give you additional culture and science.
 
Actually, maps should have more hazards, like volcanoes.
They'd give a food and religion boost, and gold after Flight, but there's a chance it'll erupt and destroy 1-3 of the tiles surrounding it
As well as the aforementioned skeleton coast, but the killing of passing ships is a 1 in 5 chance, so that it is really hazardous to pass it before ships are able to go into ocean tiles (since coast tiles are usually only 1 tile wide).
 
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