News: TSG142 Announcement!

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Civilization 5 - Game of the Month Training Series Game 142
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Welcome to the 142nd game in the GOTM V Training Series! This Series will allow new and old GOTM fans to try out these features from Civ5's expansions and DLCs in a friendly environment. Participants are encouraged to post questions, stories, advice, tricks and failures in the dedicated game threads (described below). Each game will specify the Civ you will play and the Victory Condition to strive for. You can read more about the GOTM and Training Series concept in this thread.

Must Read!
We would like to ask you to abide by our most sacred rule: Don’t replay any turns! If you make a mistake, accept it and try to recover. To ensure fair play and prevent results exclusions, please set your Autosaves to 1 turn. In the event of a computer crash while playing, just reload to the previous save and play it as closely to how you played it the first time. Please let Leif, Knowtalent or me know (via Private Message) if you experienced a crash and how many turns you replayed.

Civ V BNW - TSG142 Details:
Player (You): - Bismarck - Germany
Victory Condition: Domination or Diplomacy but all other VCs are enabled.
Difficulty: Emperor
Civs/City-States (including player): 8/16
Map Type/Size: Pangea
Game pace: Standard

Game options:
Start - Industrial Era
Enabled - Raging Barbarians, Quick Combat, Quick Movement

(Regardless of starting options, you may turn on/off Quick Combat/Quick Movement using the game options menu at any time during gameplay.)
Game Version: This game was created in Civ5 Brave New World version 1.0.3.279.
Game Requirements: Wonders of the Ancient World DLC, Genghis Khan DLC, Gods and Kings expansion, Brave New World Expansion.

German Unique Attributes:

Spoiler :
UA: Furor Teutonicus - Upon defeating a Barbarian unit inside an encampment, there is a 67% chance you earn 25 gold and they join your side. Pay 25% less for land unit maintenance.

UB: Hanse - Unique German Bank replacement. +5% production for each Trade Route your civilization has with a City-State. Trade routes other players make to a city with a Hanse will generate an extra 1 gold for the city owner and the trade route owner gains an additional 1 gold for the trade route.

UU: Panzer - This Unit has 1 additional movement compared to the Tank, which it replaces.


This is where you will start:




Information about threads associated with each individual TSG -- Must Read if you are new to our Game of the Month!
Spoiler :
Please note: If you wish to make a video of your game, please do not post any links to it until after the game submission date has passed. This is because of the potential spoilers that are created by posting before the end date. Thank you for your cooperation.

TSG Announcement thread (this one): This thread is used to announce the game and clarify the settings and rules (don’t be afraid to ask questions). It’s also used to discuss the game before you start, and post problems with opening the save. Once you have opened the save, DO NOT POST in the Announcement thread, even non game-related information. Instead use the next thread.

Opening Actions thread: This thread is used to discuss the game's opening decisions and strategies through the first 100 or so turns. Here you can post questions related to the game and share your achievements/anger/frustration/victories while you play. We encourage players to use the spoiler tags for screenshot. During the time the game is active, please do not post any information concerning the game outside of the spoiler threads including screen shots, videos, or recorded/live-cast Let's Plays on other websites.

After Actions thread: In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game. Some players like to replay the game, and although we will not record the results from a replay, you can still post your new experiences. The game will not be closed as such, but after one month, the results will be compiled, and will not necessarily be updated with reports coming in after the finish date.

Results and Congratulations thread: We will create a separate thread with the results at the end of the one month submission period (sorted by date and score). We will issue medals to the top 3 winners (based on earliest date finished). There are no long-term records kept for these results, they are just given out to top finishers to reward their efforts.


File Upload System
We have a game file upload system you can find here. Please use it to upload your completed first attempt by saving the game on the turn after your victory or defeat. (by using the "lemme play one more turn" feature) Please note: you must submit your game on the turn following Victory. If you continue to play, the game overwrites the data and your submission could be rejected by the submission system.

This game runs for a month and ends October 1st, 2016.


The save will be available for download on September 1st, 2016, midnight Central Standard time (UTC -6:00) in the US.

The Save can be found here.
 
I played a quick about 20 or 30 turns with these settings just to see what happens. Your cities start out at 3 pop. You get a lot of nice buildings as soon as you settle... but no gold to pay for them. You have settlers already but no scouts; so plant one of them on the best tile you can find on turn zero, send your muskets out in all directions to take a peek, and maybe put your first expo on top of a luxury 4 or 5 tiles away. Try to find someplace really nice for the 3rd, but don't take too long because the AI's all have 3 settlers too.

And religion is disabled; you can't even build a shrine (so don't put your 5 free policies into Piety)

I have no idea what the best policy tree is for Germany with a late start, maybe 2 in Tradition, Commerce opener, and 2 in Rationalism? Honor is tempting with Germany, but the map will fill up with cities so fast there might not be any barb camps to clear.

First thing I build will probably be an ironworks, then a national college.

In the opening screen shot, I'll probably settle in place with one of the grasslands/mountain/river settlers, but I'm not sure which is the better one. The one farther north loses access to the cows, but picks up more production tiles in the 2-ring.
 
Based on the different era start analysis KRC did a while ago, Industrial Era starts are configured with 'NoBarbUnits=True'. If this means what I think it does it may not reflect the game you're anticipating (Germany+Raging).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11468473&postcount=15

I can test in a sample game later tonight and confirm the exact behaviour.

I didn't see any barbs at all in the few turns that I played. I expected to be swarmed by them.
 
Based on the different era start analysis KRC did a while ago, Industrial Era starts are configured with 'NoBarbUnits=True'. If this means what I think it does it may not reflect the game you're anticipating (Germany+Raging).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11468473&postcount=15

I can test in a sample game later tonight and confirm the exact behaviour.

At Immortal and Deity there weren't any but when I playtested this I did find a few at Emperor. It's the only reason I added Raging Barbs as a setting, hoping for more than a normal spawn rate. Plus there might be more on islands the AI can't go after immediately, and I think the Honor opener might affect the spawn frequency, too. I do recommend some test games with and without Honor to see how many camps might spawn. It is only a flavor enhancement, not an abuse-able setting.
 
and for further full disclosure since we already did an Industrial start, the wonders you can build are all National Wonders (regardless of Era) and only World Wonders from Renaissance Era and after.

edit: clarifying (thanks to sebtanic!)
 
I am grateful for all the analysis. I read OP too quickly and thought it was another Renaissance start!
After this discussion, I think I will try a practice game with these settings first. Game should be pretty fast.

NE settler switch places with worker to NW and found capital.
S settler 3 hexes S/SW, on the marsh/river next to cow and hill. Unless I spot the coast, then he goes more south.
3rd setter keep following the river, see if he can find the coast, maybe also stay on the river. If 2nd settler spots coast on T1, he can go due W. I want to plant him sooner than later, but I will be picky.

Based on the different era start analysis KRC did a while ago, Industrial Era starts are configured with 'NoBarbUnits=True'. If this means what I think it does it may not reflect the game you're anticipating (Germany+Raging).
NoBarbCities is still false though. And the numbers for Renaissance start, at the very least, are off. Still, Raging Barbs mostly works against the UA. German UA benefits from clearing camps, not barbs. More barbs means that camps are more work to clear (and you need a pair of units to hunt them). With the late start, I cannot imagine that part of the UA being of any practical utility, not that I won't try. In a normal game, with luck and practice, you can get a decent early army from the UA.

...And religion is disabled; you can't even build a shrine
Yikes! I do not care for that!

I have no idea what the best policy tree is for Germany with a late start, maybe 2 in Tradition, Commerce opener, and 2 in Rationalism?
From my limited experience with the Renaissance GotM starts, I became convinced that strongest play is to work the trees the same as always. But Industrial start might be different.

...and I think the Honor opener might affect the spawn frequency, too.
Where are you getting that idea from? That would be an amazing find!
 
A silly strategy I have in mind is to settle one city, go Liberty and pick up Collective Rule, then explore with 3 settlers and forward-settle 3 AIs. DoW them and have them suicide all the starting units into your cities, get a cannon or two in each expo and take 3 capitals very early.
 
I predict a scramble to get your cities productive and roads in place before the wars start. It should be peaceful for a while. I'm thinking seriously about the Commerce tree, cheaper roads, better caravans, cheaper stuff, Landschenckts. Since this is Germany, you'll want to find the CS's quickly and get trade routes to them and get hanses built.

I don't know how we get ahead in science with this late a start. Maybe you don't have to; just don't fall too far behind?
 
NoBarbCities is still false though. And the numbers for Renaissance start, at the very least, are off. Still, Raging Barbs mostly works against the UA. German UA benefits from clearing camps, not barbs. More barbs means that camps are more work to clear (and you need a pair of units to hunt them). With the late start, I cannot imagine that part of the UA being of any practical utility, not that I won't try. In a normal game, with luck and practice, you can get a decent early army from the UA.

krc's lua find was from 2012 (nice digging, hitretz) and BNW (2013) and patches since may have changed some of those settings i think. i havent personally gone into the lua to find that out but in my practice game it felt like Honor may have influenced the spawn. i didnt have enough time to do a lot of practice games before posting this so i went with my gut on Raging Barbs. but i did see a camp spawn with a Pike unit (it had a CS worker too) so i do know at least a few camps will spawn, but im just guessing as to why so don't take it as hard fact coming from me that Honor affects it, haha.

There's still 2 days before the save goes public but still another 30 more before submissions have to be in. No hurry on finding it out either way.
 
I don't know how we get ahead in science with this late a start. Maybe you don't have to; just don't fall too far behind?

You'll get ahead easier on Emperor by being a human player, haha. you start with a library so you can prioritize Unis and slots faster than they can and burn Oxford quicker if you want. you just have to get the population rolling for that. you should easily be first to Atomic/Modern and Globalization if you focus on Diplo VC.
 
Might experiment a bit since I've never played with anything other than ancient for start era. I suspect that just rushing something like dynamite and destroying everyone's probably fastest though. Especially once you've got hanse production bonus up and running. Like even if you get the infrastructure up quickly you won't have the pop to tech very fast. Still not sure if it would be worth it to try to fill out tradition, or just fill out useful policies in places like rationalism or patronage right off the bat. Should be fun to see what everyone comes up with.
 
Nice to play as Germany! (My home country) I still suck at warfare but might give it a try with artillery. Gonna see how it goes with a test game fist if I have the time. Otherwise, diplo should be easy enough.

I don't remember ever having built Hanses (I might have forgotten or not paid much attention), is it a good UB?

and for further full disclosure since we already did an Industrial start, the only wonders you can build are National Wonders and World Wonders from Renaissance Era and after. No Ancient of Medieval wonders will be available.

In my test game I was able to build NC and Ironworks, so I believe you can build all National Wonders but only Renaissance+ World Wonders.
 
In my test game I was able to build NC and Ironworks, so I believe you can build all National Wonders but only Renaissance+ World Wonders.

that is actually what i meant, all Nat't Wonders, but now that i read it again it looks like it could mean only Ren Nat'l wonders. thanks for clarifying it for any one who might have misunderstood me. i'll adjust the language so that it is no longer unclear.
 
I played a little more and barbs are spawning, but not as many as I'm used to seeing. I've recruited a brute and several muskets and a rifleman.

I used the brute to scout with; he found Kilimanjaro. I'd like to send all my units over there for altitude training, but it's a long ways away, and besides they are busy fighting with Ethiopia right now.
 
I ran a couple test games, 40 turns being enough to be the first to Ideologies with both. First I played full Tradition, then on the same map, full Liberty. The Liberty game felt significantly stronger (five turns faster to Radio, SP a few turns faster, and I got three Wonders versus zero). Both games I had four cities in the same places. BO was Watermills then workers (until I had eight of them), pausing for Stone Works, Forges and Stables (as they unlocked), then Caravans, then Universities. Tradition Cap started on a settler once I hit pop 5, but Settlers are extra hammers, so that took a bit of time (even with chops). With Liberty my BO was the same, except Aqueducts after Watermills and before workers. I have no real idea about the BO, but it seemed good enough. In both games I was at top of the leaderboard by T290 (you start at T250). I was significantly behind where I am most games by T290, but OTOH, it would be rare for me to be competitive with the AI after so few turns. Both games I picked up three units from five barb camps (very surprising to me for the RNG be so similar there).

Follows is my after-the-fact rationalizations for why Liberty comes out ahead with this Advanced Start (as compared to a Standard game):

Tradition
- Free Opera Houses instead of Monument seems nice, but all the buildings have reduced hammer cost, so fewer turns in net value.
- Free Aqueducts will be relatively late instead of super early. And again, the free hammers are of relatively low value.
- Unlocking the ability to faith purchase GP is useless in a game with no religion.

Liberty
+ Free settler on turn 0; so, it’s early and settlers are relatively expensive.
+ GP from finisher in a game with no religion makes it all the more valuable. I did LToP (for a GE) and then Sistine Chapel.

Raging Barbs is a good choice. You start with extra units, but all at 0 XP, so the additional opportunities to level up is very nice. Camps never being empty is no big deal since your are hunting with Muskets, and you only need one of them. It is poor luck when a brute spawns, but they upgrade to a Musket for less than 150 gold, so that is okay.
 
Hey Beetle, which policy did you save for last on Liberty? You can take all but one on turn 0.

I need to play another practice start. I like the idea of a free engineer to get LTOP, another one and save him for Porcelain Tower to get a free scientist for an academy. But I'm not sure how quickly you get to open Rationalism; it might be gone already.

I got an engineer naturally much quicker than I expected. They must be discounted from the late-era start, and I was working a workshop specialist.
 
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