SANCTA diplomacy

Lord Parkin

aka emperor
Joined
Apr 27, 2004
Messages
6,374
Location
New Zealand
Well, we just met SANCTA. And I couldn't be more surprised at their tech standing...



And no, they don't have Machinery or anything else on top of us. It seems - oddly - that everyone else is refusing to trade with them or something. Whatever the reason, we should definitely try to capitalize on this, and see if we can get some tech trades going with them! :)
 

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Proposed initial message:

Greetings, SANCTA!

It is a pleasure to meet your team at long last! Our people are overjoyed to hear of our meeting after so many years of waiting. :)

We would like to propose an initial friendly agreement with you: Open Borders and mutual non-aggression, to at least 1 AD. (Dates can of course be negotiated if you wish!) What are your thoughts?

Also, we notice that there are presently several techs that we are each missing. We would be very interested in negotiating some tech trades with you in the near future, providing you are open and willing. :)

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn

P.S. You can reach us at saturn.mtdg (AT) gmail.com or via PM. Please let us know where you would prefer to receive your diplomacy. ;)
 
Since time is of the essence in sending a polite initial greeting, I sent the above message as is. In future I'll check with everyone beforehand, but since I didn't say anything radical I figured it would be best to send SANCTA a message ASAP. Especially given the astonishing tech situation which we could potentially benefit greatly from if we act quickly. :)
 
I was going to say good message and maybe add that we're researching Feudalism and ask what they are doing.

Very suprising tech status. This should give us good trading opportunities.
 
Wow, a reply already!

Namaste, Lord Parkin.
The Ninjas salute the Great Empire of Saturn.

At long-last, our peoples finally meet! We’ve been eagerly looking forward to this great day.
First of all, let us assure you that you have nothing to fear from our friendly chariot ambassador. His mission is strictly one of diplomacy.

In fact – if you’ll forgive us for pushing past diplomatic niceties so quickly – we’d like to get right down to serious business with your people. We’re just going to put all our cards on the table, and hope you’ll agree that we have the potential to do great things together.

The Situation:
Here’s where we stand: the Kazakhstani people have united most of the world into an alliance that specifically excludes us. They’ve been dealing most closely with the Cavaleiros – but also have roped the Mad Scientists in on the deal as well.

We’re therefore currently operating in a 3v1 environment, and would very much like to have an ally… as you can imagine!

Kaz is currently in a very dominant position, since the Mad Scientists and Cavaleiros seem willing to let Kaz take continued advantage of them for reasons we can’t fathom. But SANCTA has managed to do very well despite lacking an ally – and we’re in a position to be an extremely helpful ally – if you’ll take us up on an offer of friendship.

The Pitch:
Why should you join us on the short side of a 2v3 when you could join the strong side of a 4v1? We think there are a few compelling reasons.

* First of all – given the close nature of the Kaz-Cav cooperation – you’d certainly end up as the most (or second most) junior partner in the 4-way alliance. After we’ve been destroyed, you don’t need the Oracle to predict that you’ll be next.
* Second – The current 3 way alliance doesn’t need you as badly as we do. There’s no way that they will be as excited, generous, or cooperative as we’ll be. We’re willing to bend over backwards to make a deal with you that you’ll like.
* Finally – we’re very confident (backed up by extensive simulations we’ve been running) that together we could surpass the Kaz-Cav-MadS alliance and secure the top two spots for our nations.


The Proposal
If you’d be willing to agree to an alliance with us – we’ll gift you all our tech and work with you to draft a treaty that ensures you stay competitive & thrive… so that when we both triumph through to the final two spots, you’ve got just a good a shot at victory as we do.​

We know that this is a lot all at once – but we’re hoping that just being honest and transparent about our situation will help to persuade you that you’re better off with us than against us.


What say you?
We eagerly await your reply.

General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA.

A long quiet wait…
A letter dispatched abroad,
Diplomacy starts.


If you need to contact any important people asap to chat, these are the two:
usaman77@hotmail.com - General_W, diploguy
matthew_wheatley@hotmail.com - Team Leader
Very, very interesting. They really do sound genuine about this. I'm sure that Kaz and Cav are allied, that part I definitely believe. The only thing is I'm not 100% sure we can believe that MS are "officially" with Kaz and Cav though. It sort of explains the lack of communication from MS, although that was apparent even very on in our diplomacy with them. It could be just bad team management (as DaveShack has already privately said to me).

So, what do we do? I think sending a friendly reply accepting Sailing from them right away would be great. Not so sure about Metal Casting though, it might kind of give things away to the rest of the world that we've got something going with SANCTA. (Probably not a good idea when we don't yet know where we stand with MS.) Plus, we can't use Metal Casting yet anyway (Forges are too expensive to bother with right now).

It'd be nice to hear from MS before we respond to SANCTA, but I somehow suspect we won't (judging by their past poor communication). So agreeing to be in an alliance with SANCTA for the time being seems fine, provided we keep it fairly secret (not too many gifts at once!).

Actually, since we haven't agreed to anything with Kaz, Cav, or MS regarding SANCTA yet, maybe we should get in quick and just do a big tech trade right now? Better to do it now "in innocence" than to receive a message from Kaz or Cav in a few days asking us not to trade with SANCTA. (No effective difference, except we can claim innocence in the former case, whereas trading anyway if we receive some message from Kaz or Cav will piss them off more.)

By the way, it sounds like we could easily get some map info from SANCTA if we asked, given their very friendly stance towards us. :)

Anyway, I'm kind of rambling, but it's because I'm excited about this game (for once! :p ). I'll let the rest of you speak now. :)
 
Mad Scientists said "Death to SANCTA!" at one point, right? I wonder why the three decided to exclude them...

Getting an actual honest-to-god ally in this game would be a great blessing, one that isn't either too far ahead or just sucky. ;) We need to move forward with extreme caution, perhaps having each other gift techs separately so you can't tell for sure where we got them from on civstats. Ideally we wouldn't be 2v3 but be on friendly terms and trading with everybody, but that may be too much to ask for. :p

Regardless, if the threesome does send us a message to exclude SANCTA from trades (as they likely will now that we've met) I think we might want to choose to align with SANCTA anyway. We may have more to gain with them.
 
Talking to Krill right now, and it seems that the thing regarding MS may have just been a misunderstanding on their part. MS just seems to be useless at communicating with everyone. ;) They're not necessarily hard-and-fast allies with Kaz/Cav (although you never know for sure). Seems like either way MS will be relatively useless allies to either side though, since they hardly ever respond. It'd be nice if we could still be on friendly terms with them though (especially if we can get that trade going).

First part of the conversation (to date):

Spoiler :
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
hi
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
interesting situation
Chris says:
hi mate
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
how long have you guys known that Kaz/Cav have been allied against you?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
just curious
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
you were up the top of the score chart for quite a while there
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we kind of expected to find you way out in the tech lead when we found you
Chris says:
Well, score's an interesting. We're creative, so we got a lot of land points that are completely irrelevent, and we orracled MC
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah yeah, of course
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
for a while there we were fearful that there was a Kaz/Cav/SANCTA alliance, and that MS and Saturn were completely screwed
Chris says:
We've known that Cav and Kaz were in an alliance since befrore we met them. Around t50 at teh absolute latest they had an alliance.
Chris says:
Cav were going to oracle fuedalism, while Kaz got alphabet
Chris says:
Then Kaz met us, refused to trade for anything apart from MC off us...
Chris says:
Cav met us, and offered us alphabet for MC...
Chris says:
At the same time Kaz refused to trade with us for MC after we rebuffed them the first time...
Chris says:
Just wondering...and I'll found out when one of our guys logs into the game, but do you guys have alphabet?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we got it from Kaz a few turns ago
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
they were suddenly very eager to trade with us
Chris says:
Cool.
Chris says:
What happened was they were trying to sell alpha to us as well
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
maybe they knew we'd meet you soon or something...
Chris says:
yeah
Chris says:
jsut wondering, but did you meet us at teh chariot or the galley?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
Galley
Chris says:
are cool
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
where's the Chariot?
Chris says:
*ah
Chris says:
um
Chris says:
on a hill, 2 tiles east of a desert hill
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
our Immortal just found Cav's territory this turn, actually... they're alarmingly close to us, only a stone's throw
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we thought we'd find MS down there, but no...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
anyway, that's just random news
Chris says:
Yeah, the map seems a little weird
Chris says:
we don;t know where MS are either
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
unfortunately we're tied into working with Kaz at least for a little bit
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we're working on Feudalism, and have promised it to them in return for the techs they've sent us
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
no biggie though, just a tech deal
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
no alliance
Chris says:
cool
Chris says:
we thought you would be
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
wish we'd known about the Cav-MS thing earlier
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
would have thought more about Feudalism
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
and actually, are you sure about MS?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
they didn't seem that closely tied to Cav when we talked to them
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
mind you, that team hardly EVER seems to talk
Chris says:
Well, we sent them more than half a dozen emails
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
they seem to have some terrible communications issues
Chris says:
they managed, more than 1 months after meeting us, to send us an email that ignored all of our previous talking points and commited to nothing.
Chris says:
So, yeah
Chris says:
you may be right and they don;t want to work with us, but not work with the others...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I did chat "off the record" with DaveShack when we were trying to talk with MS, and he said there was a serious lack of activity on his team which was the main problem
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
the few times they've responded to us, they've been fairly friendly and agreeable
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
might be just the percieved power difference, I guess
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we're the one team that's lower than them on the scoreboard, so they don't feel threatened or something
Chris says:
Ah, that definately helps We'll definately have to take that into account...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I think if MS could be brought on our side that'd be a fairer 3-2 than the current one
Chris says:
definately
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
then again, I'm dubious about whether it'd be worth it
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
that team just sucks at communicating...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we've been trying to arrange a tech trade with them for weeks, and still nothing...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
from past multiplayer experience, I've found you really need allies that will read and respond to messages promptly
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
otherwise they're next to useless
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but I may be speaking too soon
Chris says:
yeah...I think we're on the same page there
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
then again, we've known MS for months, and they've always been this way...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yep
Chris says:
Well, may we talk about tech for the moment?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we'd actually become rather frustrated and bored with the game, because Kaz/Cav were always rather arrogant and abrupt with us, and MS were simply not there. So it was a bit lonely out there... glad to have met you guys
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
sure thing
 
Part two of my conversation with Krill:

Spoiler :
Chris says:
well, basically, you can see teh techs we have.
Chris says:
What you can't see is that we have 300 gold saved atm
Chris says:
We weren't sure what you guys were teching, so we saved gold starting around t75
Chris says:
You've already seen the offer of an alliance. That's going to stand even if you have to research fued first.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
okay
Chris says:
If you guys are willing to trade us alphabet, CoL, archery, we're able to get maths and masonry by t93, currency by t99-t100. We'd be willing to trade you these, and Metal Casting (so long as you could agree to not trade them to Kaz/Cav/(and MS on the offchance...).
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
We'll be getting Maths from Kaz soon...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
part of our deal
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
so you don't have to put any beakers in to that
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
(or have you already?)
Chris says:
nah, we haven't started yet.
Chris says:
as said, we'd been waiting to meet you
Chris says:
and it's been a lonely few months
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I don't see that we'd have any problem with trading you any techs - I'd have to talk it over with the team though, obviously. I think the only point that's been raised so far is that maybe we should make gifts instead of trades - just to reduce traceability for the moment. It'll probably become apparent soon enough that we're helping each other out, but it'd be nice to try to keep cordial
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
relations with the other nations as long as we can.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, right
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
what's taken so long, by the way?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
roughly what direction / how far are you from us?
Chris says:
We're to the SE of our galley. you? Basically we took a wrong turning about 40 turns ago, went into a cul de sac and then the warrior died. Then we just thought it'd be quicker to drop a chariot off with a galley instead of walking an axe over there around so many mountains
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
SW of your Galley
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, okay... so just bad luck really
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah well, it happens
Chris says:
yeah.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we never bothered with a work boat / galley, and all our land-based explorers died due to animal attacks...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we were fairly unlucky there
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
probably should have gone with the work boat in retrospect, but never mind
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
do you know where any of the other teams are located relative to one another?
Chris says:
Kaz are south of us
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we can only see Cav, to our SW
Chris says:
We found Cav, along way to our west of us
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, okay
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I wonder where MS are... I guess either down south or way to the west
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
they met us from the west
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
via work boat
Chris says:
They met us with a warrior, woody 2 promoted near our lands
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ok
Chris says:
One last thing...you said you were owed maths, and you traded for alpha...we're eager to get currency for the trade routes, so we do kinda want to research that asap. Do you guys know when it would be possible for us to aquire maths and alpha from you?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I'll check...
Chris says:
thank you
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
~10 turns
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
is that too long?
Chris says:
not necesarilly
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we can attempt to negotiate to get it earlier, although I'm not sure how successful that will be
Chris says:
It's not really that, it's that atm we have nothing useful to research, save maybe HBR.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, right
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
HBR could potentially be a good trading tech
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
of course it depends how willing people will be to trade at that stage
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
you can always go gold or espionage in the meantime
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but yeah, we can look at getting maths sooner
Chris says:
we already have 300 gold saved...so saving for another ten turns may be a little...slow. We'd have to calculate the gain from getting currency sooner due to extra trade routes. That might make researching maths worthwhile, for instance
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
you can research Currency with Alphabet, right?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
just not quite as efficiently
Chris says:
true
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
not a big loss though
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
only 1/6 more beakers per turn with Maths
Chris says:
Yeah. I'll definately bring that up with the team. Could be that we are willing to research that asap instead of going for the most efficient path.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I mean, a couple of turns of researching Currency just from Alphabet before we can get you Maths would surely be better than waiting to start Currency until Maths
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
earlier trade routes balance out the lost 1/6 beakers for a few turns
Chris says:
yah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
it's how I justify going for CS without Feudalism in a lot of my personal games
Chris says:
lol
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
but works for Currency too
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
we may be able to get Maths from MS, if they'll just get their act into gear...
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
anyway, it's all speculation for now
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
what are you guys researching at the moment?
Chris says:
we are just placing the 1 beakers per turn we get free into masonry. Figured that of all the techs we could research at that rate, we would be less likely to trade for masonry as it's so cheap, and we have both prerequisites. Less likely the beakers would be "lost"
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, ok
Chris says:
One point that I think probably should be made though. We're willing to research Currency...but we do want CoL in the near future. I know it seems a little greedy to ask this, as we'd be asking for more upfront, but if you were, hpyothetically speaking, to send CoL as well as alpha to us, we'd have no reason not to research currency to then return to you.
Chris says:
obviously we'd be willing to send MC to you as well.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I don't think there will be any problems with that
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
assuming that we're entering into a full alliance, we'll probably be happy to agree to trade whenever required, without much regard for the beaker costs. That's the way I find the best alliances work, anyway - that way no-one gets uptight about who owes what.
Chris says:
yeah, I do agree with that. It's just you never quite know what's going to happen when you meet a new team...we onnly met, what, 2 hours ago?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
both parties agree to trade whenever the other requests something, and everyone stays happy
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, indeed
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I think we've found a fairly mutual desire to help one another though
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I guess both of our teams have had the whole "lonely/bored" thing going on due to isolation from the other teams
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
nice to finally meet a team that's not all guarded and cautious
Chris says:
ha, yeah
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
(or in MS's case, practically non-existent...)
Chris says:
lol.
Chris says:
Well, I have to go to lunch now.
Chris says:
Would it be OK with you posting this chat in our respective private fora? I'm ok with it if you are
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
alright
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yeah, that's fine
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I'll do that too
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
almost bedtime here
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
I guess you're in the US?
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
or Europe?
Chris says:
England
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
ah, ok
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
New Zealand here
Chris says:
cool.
Chris says:
Anyway, have a good evening then. I look forward to reading your emails in the future and hopefully working with you
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
yep, indeed. Likewise.
John - Lord Parkin - emp says:
see you later
 
SANCTA's position doesn't seem that strong. Their situation is a bit desparate, but they're not alone ;).

I don't like how MS and Kazs have communicated with us. Assuming we'll soon had to choose our side I would choose SANCTA. We might not win 2vs3, but at least the game will be more enjoyable, when you don't had to wait for weeks to get a response. Furthermore 4vs1 sounds quite boring and there is fair chance that we would be 2nd to go, if we join anti-SANCTA group. Before allying openly I would try to extract max value from the position in the middle.

I suggest this approach:
* Ally with SANCTA. Be very open what we're trying to do
* Keep low profile in the beginning. Try to get as big trade as possible with SANCTA and afterwards be polite with others and try to trade with them and possibly look like we're not that close with SANCTA
 
It might be worth seeing what else we can trade with others before we start trading with SANCTA. Then again, we've been trying that for ages (particularly with MS), and I don't forsee a breakthrough coming anytime soon. So it may be best to just go along with a low profile version of the SANCTA alliance. With luck, we'll still be able to maintain some cordial ties with other nations and perhaps not sever our trade possibilities completely.

By the way, having seen how close Cav are, I'm slightly worried about whether we might be the target of an invasion of theirs. SANCTA are to our east, so we're easily the nearest target for Cav. If Kaz get involved too (who are apparently to our south-east), then we're pretty much done for.

But I agree, it's going to be more fun if we have a loyal ally, even if we do end up being one of the first teams to go. At least we'll have fun in the process, which is better than the previous situation where a lot of us were getting a bit sick of this game. ;)
 
EP to Cavs at some point definately. However I think we should accumulate EP to Kazs until we see their demographics.

Since MS silence continues and it seems we're all in favor in allying with SANCTA I think we should prepare answer for them.
 
I think plako meant SANCTA. :)

From SANCTA:

Namaste Saturn,

We accept your proposal for OB and No Aggression until 1AD from this turn.

While you are discussing our proposal regarding an alliance, we would like to gift you Sailing. This will allow you to connect up you new city to the trade network immediately, and benefits us with a full set of trade routes.

Is this proposal acceptable to you? If it is, please accept the deal offered in game.

If there is anything you wish to talk or chat about, please don't hesitate to email, pm or contact me via MSN.

Krill, Daimyo of the Interior, SANCTA
Waves and spray, stormy
Formidable Enemies
Powerful Partners
 
Prepare an answer to SANCTA, not Mad Scientist. (I didn't know who you were referring to, plako.) :)

Message? This is an example, but it's incomplete since I am lacking some technological information.


Hello, SANCTA. :)

It didn't take team Saturn very long to decide to ally with you guys, for both the reasons you proposed and other factors. However, as you might know, we aren't openly hostile to the 3 other teams at the moment, so it's possible for us to extract some technologies from them, in which we could give to you in turn. We currently are planning on finishing up the tech Feudalism (part of a deal with team Kaz) in order to trade with them and hopefully team Cav (and Mad Scientist, but let's be frank - they're so slow in responding that I doubt we could get anything from them at all). Our current deal for Feudalism involves us getting ____(insert technologies here)______.

We would like to keep our alliance as low-profile as possible to start with, so that we can actually pull off our Feudalism deals with team Kaz and Cav. This is just for practical reasons only, though, and we will be openly honest about this deal with team SANCTA.

Another thing that might be of benefit to both of our teams (initially, at least) is to gift techs rather than trade together - this ensures that no one who is hovering over the game (or CivStats.com) will recognize that we are mutually trading. However, we must be careful about this, because other teams are sure to know when we obtain techs other than Feudalism and question our intents. Therefore, it may be in the best interests for our alliance to gift techs once we obtain feudalism. It will take us more than 10 turns to obtain Feudalism when accounting for our current stock of 40-ish gold. We are currently losing 10 gold pieces per turn, and this will only increase in the following turns since we plan on founding our fifth city soon. In light of this, we hope that our trade route income may help out our financial situation.

Once again, the only reason we want to hold off trading is that we are currently in a deal with the other teams to obtain some very useful techs such as ____(insert techs here)______ which we can then give to you guys, thus benefiting both of us.

Lastly, it would make sense that we inform each other of our current demographic standings and any other additional information, so we can use our limited espionage points on the other 3 teams. We currently have enough points to see the demographics of team Mad Scientists, but we are in the process of switching to team Cav since they are the closest team to us.

Team Saturn hopes that its alliance with SANCTA will turn out to be the best.

~DMOC
 
Whoops, I didn't notice that you posted a message, Lord Parkin. I was typing it up and then for some reason CivFanatics logged me out so I re-logged in and pasted my message here.

Do you want to combine our messages?

EDIT: My message can be modified to say that we'll accept Sailing immediately.

EDIT 2: Whoops, they don't have currency. :(
 
Suggested response:

Greetings SANCTA, and sorry for our delay. :)

We would be honoured to accept your offer of a larger alliance between our two nations! We have thoroughly discussed committing to a full alliance with you, and think it is the best way to give both of our teams a fighting chance in this game.

A few suggestions we have:

- Full openness regarding all communications with other teams. For example, if one team hints of an upcoming war against someone, we pass that on. If we're looking to secure a tech trade with a third party, we let the other partner know. Basically, we share all information of importance.

- Openness with other information obtained on rival teams. On a related note, we should divide our espionage points such that we can each gather information on one rival team. (For example, we can put all espionage into Cav, and you could put most of yours into Kaz.)

- Free exchange of techs between us, without regard to beaker costs. If one of us requests a tech, the other will provide it instantly. (On the flip side, we should to only ask for what we need from one another. Gifting over too many techs at once may unnecessarily sour relations and future trade opportunities with other nations.)

- Where practical, we agree to help each other out in times of defensive war. (Obviously for the next 50 turns or so we'll still be too isolated from one another to be able to help much in the case of any war declarations.) For offensive wars, we can make a decision at the time whether we want to war together, but neither of us is obliged to join.

- The possibility of MS being included in the alliance should not be completely ruled out, although they'd need to seriously change their team organization (which is unlikely to happen). Of course, we'd need to thoroughly discuss things between ourselves first and come to an agreement before we would ever admit anyone new to the alliance.

- We should probably have some kind of agreement regarding a far future end date for the alliance, just so neither of us is confused. I suggest that the alliance should come up for renegotiation after the defeat of Kazakhstan and Cavaleiros (defeat being when we both agree that they are no longer a threat). Of course, that may never even happen in this game, but I'm just thinking ahead anyway. :)

Please let us know what you think. We're looking forward to working with you! :D

Kind regards,
Lord Parkin of Saturn

P.S. Thanks for Sailing - we've offered Alphabet! :)
 
Oops, cross-posted with DMOC. :lol:

Looks like I got most of the points you mentioned anyway. SANCTA already know our situation with Feudalism and Kaz, because I mentioned it in the chat we had.

If everyone's happy with my message, I'll send it in 12 hours or so. :)
 
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