The Counterstrike

[Paul#42]

turn 155 is payback day.

I'd like to get 6-7 frigates at the very first possible moment. So I'd like to time their production.

If we run full science from now (turn 144) we will get:
Metallurgy #148 (~1220 left @ 305bpt = 4 turns)
Magnetism #154 (2040 @ 340bpt = 6 turns)
Frigates #155 (60 shields)

So it's time to time some prebuilds.

I'd like frigates from the following towns:
1. The Admirality (first in war, first in peace - last in the American League ) 10spt, start prebuild in #149 (horses in between?)
2. The Ways 5spt, start prebuild, short rush to longbow in #151
3. The Pier 6spt, start prebuild in #145
4. The New Yard 4spt, short rush to LB in #150
5. The Shallows Whale Pond 1spt, prebuild now, cash rush in #154
6. The Marina 1spt, prebuild now, cash rush in #154
7. Chamsuri's Cove 3spt, prebuild now, cash rush in #154

The Marina and The Shallows should switch to prebuilds now.
The New Yard could also switch to prebuild now, slowing down production slightly (34 shields needed @4spt) to spare ~120g (at cost of the lib worth 3bpt)

 

[donsig]

The idea sounds great to me. I won't dare to look at the MM part of it. The key here is getting physics from FREE in time to start magnetism right away.

 

[General_W]

Sounds like a great plan, but my analysis of the MMing would be useless.

I agree on the principle however. We should do this asap, and make BABE pay for their crimes!

 

[Aigburth]

Yes nice plan Paul

Any idea how much gold in total this would cost?

 

[Paul#42]

Approximated costs
1. The Admirality 10spt, starts #149 - 0 gold
2. The Ways 5spt, start prebuild, short rush to longbow in #151 - 40g
3. The Pier 5spt, start prebuild, short rush to longbow in #151 - 40g
4. The New Yard (22s, 4spt), switch to prebuild now, ready in #154 - 0g
5. The Whale Pond (10s, 1spt), switch to prebuild now, cash rush 40 shields in #154 - 160g
6. The Marina (28s, 3spt), switch to prebuild now, ready in #154 - 0g
7. Chamsuri's Cove (30s, 3spt), switch to prebuild now, ready in #154 - 0g

That would be ~240 gold, 160g of them in The Whale Pond. We should cancel that.
That way we pay 80g for six frigates.

I will validate this estimation when we got the save.

Attack plan
If we want our Frigates to bomb the BABE galleys, they could flee.
So I'd favor our first strike to be a direct attack...
Maybe we should place our caravels then to block some tiles so our frigates get a second strike.

 

[General_W]

I agree with attacking BABE's galleys first. The more we can sink, the better. Not to mention, that some of those boats still have units on them... that means we can do more shield & WW damage to BABE by sinking those boats.

Also, remember that Frigates get 5 moves. That's enough to run down BABE's galleys if they flee. Even with the Great Lighthouse, they'll only get 4 moves for their galleys. So no real need to block them with Caravels that I can see.

 

[Paul#42]

Also, remember that Frigates get 5 moves.

This site had told me it's got 4 moves.
Maybe it's the Ptw values.
But C3C help tells me 5 is right.

I can't remember if I ever build one...

 

[donsig]

I don't think I've ever used frigates either. This will be fun. I agree we should cancel the 160g rush in the Whale Pond. 80g for six frigates sounds like a deal and shouldn't delay our tech advancement.

 

[zyxy]

I agree with 6 frigates for 80 gold.

I would rather bombard before attacking, as frigates only have attack power 2, and so the win probability of a straight attack is not high. The BABE galleys have to stay in sea/coastal tiles so they cannot easily hide and we probably have a few turns to chase them. Our 5 movement points ('pedia says it too, so it must be true) will help with that - it means we can move just as fast as BABE, and have another movement point to bombard or attack. Keeping our frigates in big stacks will also help to keep them safe. It seems we'll build three in the NE, so that would work.

 

[Paul#42]

Right now it seems they won't wait for our strike anyway

And movement 5 also changes things, with movement 5 bombarding first is definetely better.

 

[donsig]

So if they run away we proceed directly to bombarding SCI.

 

[peter grimes]

Yes, Bombarding SCI is the Plan B if chasing their ships is not feasible.

But this raises a question: What if Babe offers us peace first? Will we not accept peace until they accept Education?

 

[AutomatedTeller]

We've proposed peace and told them that it included SCI back.

I believe we need to bombard galleys to 1 HP before attacking. One thing we might run into is stacked galley, but if we keep building frigates, that's no big deal.

 

[Paul#42]

Frigates is just one part of the counterstrike.

Where do we send some loaded caravels / galleons?

The caravel near The Phoenix could go scouting the nearby BABE-11-tiler.
Maybe already loaded with a couple of muskets?
However our next muskets are too far (3-4 turns) away

 

[donsig]

I'm not sure where we could land. I'd be surprised if we could land on any of the eleven tile islands. I think if we send troops in we'd have to send them to the BABE homeland. I'm not sure if that's a good idea but think if we did attempt a landing we should coordinate it with SABER.

 

[General_W]

Any troops should be on standby to re-take Subcommittee Island for now. Who knows? if we leave the boats just out of BABE's Line-of-Sight, maybe they'll retreat inland to escape our bombardment, giving us an opening?

Before we try to invade the BABE homeland, we'll 100% for sure want to coordinate with FREE or Saber or Both.

 

[Paul#42]

moved discussion from the preturn thread.

prospected time table
(to be reviewed and fixed after we got refining from SABER)
#185 Steel (5 x 840bpt),
#190 Combustion (5 x 960bp),
#195 Flight (5 x 1080bpt). Switch prebuilds to bombers,
#196 position bombers,
#197 strike.

#197 we also need some frigates and loaded transports / galleons in range of SCI's southern tip.

What do we load the transports with? ACs and rifles I guess...
A settler and a worker as well...
Those need to start two turns earlier. We still need a ship chain from The Whale Pond so we don't risk our loaded ships... 2x3 transports = 12-18 land units.
So on #195 we need the landing force ready to go from The Marina or The Shallows, meet in the Whale Pond on #196 and land via ship chain on turn #197. #198 if we should face naval opposition sinking our transports on high sea.

Do bombers show up on top in a town if no defenders are in there?
We'll arouse suspicion if The Whale Pond suddenly has a rifle on top...
All our units will arrive there just in time so BABE (GONG) won't get a warning. I hope GONG's annoying vessel will be gone by then...

We should start bombers in (in brackets current / prospected buildings ready in):

>=50spt (start bomber #194)
The Chamber (coal plant (?) #183, bank (?) #185, 9 guerillas / Infantry #194)
The Treasury (temple #181, cathedral #184, courthouse #186, rax #187, 7 reg guerillas / Infantry (?) #194)
The Admirality (hospital #182, temple #183, cathedral #186, 8 frigates #194)

>=34spt (#193)
The Silo (cathedral #187, coal plant #193):

>=25spt (#192)
The Igloo (factory #181, hospital: #187, cathedral: #192)

>=20spt (#191)
The Arboretum (hospital #182, temple #185, cathedral #191 (?)) (or?: factory #187, hospital #191?)

>=17spt (#190)

>=15spt (#189)
The Institute (hospital #183, ???)

That would give us 7 bombers, 8 frigates, 9 guerillas. Do we also need fighters?

 

[donsig]

OK Paul - where are those details? EDIT: Darn, adding those carriers let you get your post in before me.

Well, having nothing interesting to do this morning I went back and got Aigburth's famous bic file from the old exploration thread. We need to name another ship Chamsuri. Maybe our first aircraft carrier?

I took the bic file and did my first ever scenario editing. I added some of our west coast cities, the terrain and cities on the eleven tile islands and some cities on the other continents just so we'd have our bearings. It's in debug mode (whatever that is) and the whole map is revealed. I put a bomber in each of our cities. The idea was just to see what we can hit from where. The save is attached as is a zipped copy of the bic file. Now, remember I said this was my first time in the scenario editor so there are some weird things in the save. (Like we have no techs and our cities are starving because I didn't put all the current improvements in.) But, it serves it's purpose. You can open the save and see the range of each bomber. Heck, I just went back and added carriers (each with a bomber) near The Whale Pond and The Nursery just for fun. So feel free to play around and see what you discover.

The mock up verifies that bombers have a range of 10 tiles. Here's what we can hit:

• The Whale Pond: Oka, the rubber tile, the saltpeter hill and the two mountains on the SE tip of the island.
• The Marina: Mountain on the SE tip of the island.
• The Squeeze: Mountain on the SE tip of the island.
• The Nursery: The rubber tile on the island where The Bangles is.

EDIT: Projected times for getting techs from SABER: refining on turn 184 and mass production on turn 200. We can't build carriers till we get mass production. (And of course we can't build them or bombers without oil.)

We don't need fighters until the enemy has flight.

I'm not sure what BABE can see in The Whale Pond. If they can see the city and it only has bombers then they will see a bomber. If they aren't in range to actually see the city, then they won't see any defenders, right?

 

[Paul#42]

OK Paul - where are those details? EDIT: Darn, adding those carriers let you get your post in before me.

I'm not sure what BABE can see in The Whale Pond. If they can see the city and it only has bombers then they will see a bomber. If they aren't in range to actually see the city, then they won't see any defenders, right?

Yep. I was just envisioning to encounter more spies like the GONG vessel we see.

The Salt hill or the NW mountain would be my preferences for a landing.
It's surprising tough to shell units on mountains. Maybe we'd rather play it save and occupy the hill?

I'll have a closer look at the visible units the next turn.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I ran a quick check and if the city is empty, you can see the bombers, so we should maybe put some rifles in some of our coastal cities, which will look like we are worried about an invasion.