Sofista
Deity
Orchestrated by chaos. Farcically unbalanced. Shorter than a TV series episode.
The Anglo-Zanzibar war.
The Anglo-Zanzibar war.
Totally unexpected wars
- Thread starter RedRalph
- Start date
generalstaff
Steadfast
The US had been making noises about Cuba off and on for a very long time, on various grounds. If it was surprising that the Maine's explosion would have provided a dandy pretext for an ultimatum, especially after the rioting in Havana and the general American opposition to Weyler and his ilk...
I would be believe that. I think I heard somewhere that a policy which was going to be implemented in Cuba would have hurt Americans investing in the sugar plantation. I have trouble deciding which war started the tradition of wars for corporate interest. The more I think about it, wars for the interest of corporations go back to the invent of the trading company, so I guess I cannot be too surprised by this war.
I was aware of the Spanish atrocities, these atrocities did not have much, if any impact of the American citizenry. Of course I have to agree that human rights has be selectively thrown around (and conveniently ignored) in US foreign policy.
I would assume that they go back to the invention of the corporation; before that, they were fought in the interest of whomever else had (or wanted) the money.
Yeah. Rome fought most of its Eastern wars because of the publicani, and some people even say that the Athenians intervened in the Ionian revolt because of businessmen wanting to exploit trade ties with a potential independent government of that region under Aristagoras.
Kamilian
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2002
- Messages
- 3,473
ACtually that wasn't really out-of-the-blue... Russia has had centuries-long hsitory of back-and-forth struggle with Poland and the Bolsheviks inherited the tsars' expansionism and imperialism, no matter what nice new different names they tried to call it. When the October Revolution succeeded, sure Lenin gave Poland, the Baltic States, and Ukraine away to the Germans but the Soviets still had designs on those areas and there was even talk of incorporating Poland as a union republic, a scheme that was considered even as late as 1944-1945.
When Nazi Germany's belligerence came to the fore in 1938 after Munich, even the Soviets were appalled (and threatened) and tried to bolster the Franco-British guarantees of security by arranging an agreement with the Polish government in which Soviet troops would be permitted on Polish soil, warplanes could fly freely in Poland's skies, etc. to make Hitler think twice about pressing his claims on Danzig and other territories. But even then the Poles saw it as a blatant attempt to gain access and control over Poland - if the Nazis didn't invade, the Red Army could then hold the government hostage and force communist takeover, maybe not outright but after a couple of years after the NKVD agents cleaned up the political landscape a bit.
What surprised Poland was that the Soviets never really declared war on Poland; in fact, by 1941, when Germany was invading Russia, Poland and the USSR were allies by default despite the fact that the latter had partitioned Poland in 1939. So it wasn't really out-of-the-blue; it was just a matter of it being like you said in your little vignette, like "we're retreating from the German army to regroup across the Bug River" and then a day later, sure enough, "oh my God the Soviets are coming now and they're fighting us." Perhaps at the time some had throught that the Soviets would, while picking off the Polish Army, also clash with Germany in central Poland but that was clearly not the case and no battle between Germany and the USSR occurred until June 1941.
So, surprise? Yeah, I'll give you that.
Out-of-the-blue? Not in the least.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
The Armenia-Azerbaijan War in 1990 or so was pretty damn unexpected, considering both were still members of the USSR at the time.
MagnusImperious
Chieftain
When did Judea attack Assyria? I mean sometimes the Israelites/Judeans/Israelis have done some stupid things, but attacking Assyria that's just way overboard. It must have been when they were collapsing and Babylon was revolting.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
I recall Judea attacking Syria, but don't know much about it except that it happened. Pretty sure it was some sort of coalition though, so I think you're right, but it still did not go well for them.
You mean the Battle of Qarqar? King AHAB of Biblical fame uniting with a bunch of local princelings to stalemate the Assyrians under their king Shalmaneser? That wasn't really 'not going well'. Those wacky Jews also engaged in mad hijinks under King Josiah, who got the tar beat out of him at Megiddo by the pharaoh Necho, who was on his way to fight against those allies of the Jews, the Babylonians (neo-Chaldeans?), who under Nebuchadnezzar had just conquered the Assyrians, who were Necho's allies.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Obviously either not what I was thinking about, or I was thinking about it wrong.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
They did a good job of judging a good situation very badly, so in that way, their actions were "unexpected."
amadeus
Serenity now
Well, Britain declared war on Finland in 1941 for their nominal alliance to the Germans.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Not really unexpected though.
amadeus
Serenity now
I wouldn't expect it insofar as that Mannerheim was neither a fascist or against Britain.
Cheezy the Wiz
Socialist In A Hurry
I believe Serbia declared war on Japan in 1905 when Russia did, despite never committing troops to the conflict. Monaco did the same to Germany in 1914.
Might be thinking of those all-powerful Montenegrins.
Sharwood
Rich, doctor nephew
Even more hilariously, I think the Montenegro-Japan conflict is one of the many wars that hasn't officially ended yet. Japan's Self-Defence Forces better be ready.Might be thinking of those all-powerful Montenegrins.
