Underused Pantheons discussion.

[Athenaeum]

Does anyone have creative methods of making good use of pantheons that are rarely selected?

For example, somebody recently mentioned using the Faith Healers pantheon with Air Repair for bombers to heal a lot every turn. This seemed like a really good idea that nobody ever talks about. (Provided that you would have to wait a very long time to profit from that pantheon investment but still).

Was just wondering if anybody had good underused pantheon ideas such as this one.

 

[Volcanon]

The city connections science pantheon was good for 14 science for me in a game where I knew I would not be founding a religion and neighbouring France had a very good religion that I allowed to spread to me (faith from quarries, sacred sites, two buildings).

 

[Aea]

For example, somebody recently mentioned using the Faith Healers pantheon with Air Repair for bombers to heal a lot every turn. This seemed like a really good idea that nobody ever talks about.

This gets mentioned all of the time actually. Nobody actually uses it because it's a hilarious bet to take.

 

[Sclb]

The other problem is the requirement of an alternative source of faith in order to found religion so that you can keep pantheon. That will have to be a good religious NW and/or CS.

 

[Der_Zorn_gottes]

Now I am imagining a couple of monks with incense dispersers chanting around a damaged plane.

 

[Makenshi]

Now I am imagining a couple of monks with incense dispersers chanting around a damaged plane.

Toll the Great Bell Once!
Pull the Lever forward to engage the
Piston and Pump...

Toll the Great Bell Twice!
With Push of Button fire the Engine
and spark Turbine into life...

Toll the Great Bell Thrice!
Sing Praise to the
God of All Machines!

Blessed be the coruscating plasma of the engine room,
Spiritus Machina protect us from thy burning doom.
Harness unto our will the power of light,
Let conduit and coil work alright.

 

[beetle]

Now I am imagining a couple of monks with incense dispersers chanting around a damaged plane.

I love that Makenshi pulled up that image so quick! Thanks!

This is one my peeves with V is that some of the religious perks are best explained as magic. Religious dirt giving faith is fine, but some powers should disappear in later eras. Holy Warriors is a good example of an ability that petters out.

 

[claudiupb]

In the christian orthodox religion it is quite common for priests to baptise ( or rather bless) everything from houses, cars to millitary equipment like tanks and planes.

Back on topic, Faith Healers can be used if you don't have a decent pantheon and you plan on war in modern era. But you need a source of faith that can give you a religion in order to use it.

Even the last religion is good, you don't even need to spread it, just use faith to buy buildings from other religions in expos. If you get to enhance get messiah, and late game start spreding the religion in cities with planes. The cool part is that you can buy a prophet in a city of a differnt religion and get to spreding right away, so if you conquer a city on a different continent you can make a pretty strong base there once the resistance ends.
I have used it a couple of times, when I had to choose between Faith Healers and God King and I wanted something different. There is a big gamble because you risk not getting a religion at all but it adds some interesting mechanics.

 

[meatpardle]

The city connections science pantheon was good for 14 science for me in a game where I knew I would not be founding a religion and neighbouring France had a very good religion that I allowed to spread to me (faith from quarries, sacred sites, two buildings).

But if you found a pantheon but not a religion, don't you lose your original pantheon when another religion spreads to that city?

I'm sure I had a situation where I chose this pantheon but had very little time to reap the benefits before my cities started following foreign religions.

 

[Browd]

Yes, that is how pantheons work - they exert no religious pressure (either internally or on other cities), so they can disappear pretty quickly as full religions start to spread.

 

[Athenaeum]

I guess that's another spot where the Byzantines come in. You could take a faith pantheon then use your bonus belief on Faith Healers.

That's what I love about the Byzantines, how their Bonus belief can be any type of belief (except reformation). It's too bad, if they could adopt reformation beliefs for their bonus belief they would be pretty OP.

 

[Volcanon]

But if you found a pantheon but not a religion, don't you lose your original pantheon when another religion spreads to that city?

I'm sure I had a situation where I chose this pantheon but had very little time to reap the benefits before my cities started following foreign religions.

I got about 50 turns of free science out of it before france went and converted my cities (also giving me +20 faith pt because they had the tundra pantheon). Would have all been great but some AI on the other side of the map spammed me with prophets around turn 150 and that religion suuucked (it was literally all the worst beliefs, only the happiness from temples one even had any effect). Had to inquisitor my own capital twice to bring back the french religion.

I guess that's another spot where the Byzantines come in. You could take a faith pantheon then use your bonus belief on Faith Healers.

That's what I love about the Byzantines, how their Bonus belief can be any type of belief (except reformation). It's too bad, if they could adopt reformation beliefs for their bonus belief they would be pretty OP.

I'd rather have mosques, pagodas and cathedrals if Byzantine rather than just having a wee bit better healing in the modern age.

The AI looooves faith healers. Almost as much as the ranged attack bonus pantheon. You might be better off just letting whoever has faith healers spread their religion to you.

 

[Athenaeum]

The AI looooves faith healers. Almost as much as the ranged attack bonus pantheon. You might be better off just letting whoever has faith healers spread their religion to you.

I pretty much play MP exclusively, so anybody who has faith healers as their pantheon probably won't be spreading anything to me. They probably wont have anything to spread anyways.

Having three different faith purchasing buildings is not something I would want to do for 2 reasons:

1) I like to purchase early missionaries (even before enhancement) to get my religion spread quickly. If you can spread your religion very, very early that's when it can snowball on its own. Keep in mind I play on multiplayer so it might be different. But either way, if you're purchasing a bunch of buildings you're hardly going to be spreading your religion or creating holy sites at all. Again, it's probably much more difficulty and maybe even futile to spread religion on Deity SP than it is on MP but we still play in different contexts.

2) I just want to have fun lol. Doing something new and creative is preferrable to me than to doing something routine and optimal. Plus I don't think that having bombers that heal 50 HP per turn is a trivial bonus either.

 

[beetle]

The faith building all pay back their costs if you get them early enough. Mosques only take 34 turns! So three sound like overkill, but more would be better!

It is somewhat ironic that spending the Byzantium extra pick on a pantheon is strong choice. Intuitively, one would rank things as:
founder beliefs > follower beliefs > pantheon benefits

But if the dirt matches, or if you can found with a non-faith pantheon benefit, then values are such that:
pantheon benefit > follower belief > founder belief

 

[shaglio]

It's too bad, if they could adopt reformation beliefs for their bonus belief they would be pretty OP.

Oh god, that would just elevate the "Sacred Sites cheese" maneuver to a new level! Imagine being able to take Pagodas and Sacred Sites as soon as you found your religion. Then add Mosques to it (if the game isn't already won) when you enhance.

 

[ShakaKhan]

The faith building all pay back their costs if you get them early enough. Mosques only take 34 turns! So three sound like overkill, but more would be better!

To a degree and particularly for a narrow (Tradition) empire, but the problem with multiple religious buildings, possibly compounded with a wide empire, is that it encourages tech delay if you're unable to spit 'em out quickly enough since the cost increases so much, a full 50% if you're not done by Renaissance, and anything that encourages "(______) at the cost of delayed tech" is detrimental in this game.

 

[Athenaeum]

The faith building all pay back their costs if you get them early enough. Mosques only take 34 turns! So three sound like overkill, but more would be better!

It is somewhat ironic that spending the Byzantium extra pick on a pantheon is strong choice. Intuitively, one would rank things as:
founder beliefs > follower beliefs > pantheon benefits

But if the dirt matches, or if you can found with a non-faith pantheon benefit, then values are such that:
pantheon benefit > follower belief > founder belief

Yeah there have been times where choosing bonus pantheon belief was clearly optimal for me. In one game as Byz I founded a religion from Stone Circles, but there was also silver just everywhere, especially the land that I had just conquered, so when I founded I went ahead and took the silver pantheon.

One thing I've always wanted to is spawn in a tundra/hill location with plenty of deer and other resources. Take Dance of the Aurora and then take goddess of the hunt for bonus belief. I think that would be a nice double dip in that situation for them.

 

[Athenaeum]

Oh god, that would just elevate the "Sacred Sites cheese" maneuver to a new level! Imagine being able to take Pagodas and Sacred Sites as soon as you found your religion. Then add Mosques to it (if the game isn't already won) when you enhance.

That's an interesting thought. Imagine though, if this were possible, you could fill out Piety and take out TWO reformation beliefs!

 

[shaglio]

That's an interesting thought. Imagine though, if this were possible, you could fill out Piety and take out TWO reformation beliefs!

Maybe Heathen Conversion to boost your military while your cities focus on infrastructure. Start out going for a peaceful Cultural game and then use your converted barbarian army to knock off those last few hard-to-influence civs. By the time you get to pick HC, you should have a good idea of which civs you'll need a little extra nudge with.

 

[ShakaKhan]

Maybe Heathen Conversion to boost your military while your cities focus on infrastructure. Start out going for a peaceful Cultural game and then use your converted barbarian army to knock off those last few hard-to-influence civs. By the time you get to pick HC, you should have a good idea of which civs you'll need a little extra nudge with.

I would think the no-brainer would be TTGG, since going piety often means you may not be able to finish both rationalism and aesthetics. Having to choose between the two, I'd go rationalism every time even for culture games, but unlocking the ability to faith-buy all three artist-class great people, not to mention Great Engineers for the wonders, would solve the Piety-Culture Victory dilemma.