War Weariness Mechanics

[Fachy]

Ok but technically speaking, if the mod reduces the amount of lost culture, what happens if the English owns a city with just 2500 french culture points? Will the English own the surrounding land anyway?

If yes, then the mod possibly doesn't remove resistence
If no (which is what I think), then yes the mod does crush the resistence totally giving the invador imaginery culture points

 

[Roland Johansen]

Ok but technically speaking, if the mod reduces the amount of lost culture, what happens if the English owns a city with just 2500 french culture points? Will the English own the surrounding land anyway?

If yes, then the mod possibly doesn't remove resistence
If no (which is what I think), then yes the mod does crush the resistence totally giving the invador imaginery culture points

As said, I don't know how the mod works in detail. Ask the creator of the mod.

 

[Fachy]

I just sent him a message! Not sure he'll answer since he ignored a question posted on the thread lol! But for reference here's a comment from his original post explaining an update:

- Change the code that retains culture after a city is conquered to use
setCulture instead of changeCulture. Using changeCulture gave too much culture to the civilization that conquered the city.

 

[ccccc]

Do you have any idea if Total Unhappiness in a City gets rounded up or down? I'm working on a spreadsheet that implements the formula which could be useful for very large games. But I have no idea how to look up such facts -- I suspect everything is rounded down?

Edit: I believe everything is rounded down, since your very first combat never results in a , if I remember correctly.

 

[ccccc]

The effects of map size on WW

I didn't know whether to start a new "tips" thread -- I think this one should do just fine.

Anyway, using this formula, I wanted to find out what the effect of the "map size" modifier was. The number of "WW" points are caused by the amount of combat... but the effects work differently on different maps. On smaller maps, the effects of war weariness both accumulate faster and dissipate faster. Other ways to look at it:

• Given a particular amount of combat, it will have a smaller effect on a larger map, but that WW will stick around longer.
• Given a particular amount of allowance, a larger war is allowed on a larger map, but that WW will stick around longer.

Or, if you like graphs... see how quickly the dissipates on each map size. The upper purple line represents a starting value of 2 per population point in every city --- let's hope you never fight THAT war! But anyway, you can see that on smaller maps, the unhappiness dissipates faster.

Spoiler Duel :

Spoiler Tiny :

Spoiler Small :

Spoiler Standard :

Spoiler Large :

Spoiler Huge :

Edit: If you are in the middle of a game, and you know how much you have in each city, these graphs could serve as a reference to show you how long you have to stay at peace for your current WW to go away.

 

[Tzu Iop]

Will this article be updated for BtS?

It seems to me, that WW has slightly increased. Also it would be intresting to know when the Statue of Zeus effect is added.

 

[da_Vinci]

Maybe I missed it, but the general formula pop*(activeWW*other stuff)/200 is going to generate a lot of fractional values. (Note that most other stuff will be game constants, AI constants, or slowly evolving over time, or so it seems to me).

Does anyone know what function converts the fraction to an interger, since unhappy faces must be intergers?

Is it 2.3 and 2.7 are both 2 (floor function, IIRC)

or 2.3 is 2 and 2.7 is 3 (round function)

or 2.3 and 2.7 are both 3 (ceiling function, IIRC)?

Seems to be a simple, critical question, yet not addressed.

dV

 

[cabert]

Maybe I missed it, but the general formula pop*(activeWW*other stuff)/200 is going to generate a lot of fractional values. (Note that most other stuff will be game constants, AI constants, or slowly evolving over time, or so it seems to me).

Does anyone know what function converts the fraction to an interger, since unhappy faces must be intergers?

Is it 2.3 and 2.7 are both 2 (floor function, IIRC)

or 2.3 is 2 and 2.7 is 3 (round function)

or 2.3 and 2.7 are both 3 (ceiling function, IIRC)?

Seems to be a simple, critical question, yet not addressed.

dV

as far as I know, cIV uses floor almost everywhere.
Plus there is a long time where you don't get an unhappy face from WW, so it's certainly not ceiling.

 

[da_Vinci]

as far as I know, cIV uses floor almost everywhere.
Plus there is a long time where you don't get an unhappy face from WW, so it's certainly not ceiling.

After I posted, it dawned on me that ceiling was pretty impossible.

The lag to any WW, then a faster ramping up suggests floor to me.

dV

 

[UncleJJ]

krikkitone; has WW been changed much in BtS? How does the Temple of Zeus change things for its opponents?

 

[Cer]

Which means that your people will actually be happier if you let the enemy invade and trample all over them instead of keeping them safely away from your cities. Go figure.

Yeah, if you want people to support a war, getting their farms trampled by the enemy sounds like a good way to do it.

Another example of this is 9/11/2001, where some idiots blew up some buildings and public anger in the USA gave political support to start two large military operations-- in Afghanistan and then in Iraq.

 

[Cer]

I'm pretty good at math but i have to say, post#1 was kind of confusing.

The modifiers made sense but it was hard to understand what the base formula before modifiers meant.

What it means is that if you attack and win (one combat in enemy culture-domination) you gain 1 WW point which is equal to one unhappy face in a city of 200. Defend (win or lose) in enemy culture-domination= 2 WW points, attack and lose = 3 WW points.

Gain 10 WW points and you have one unhappy face in a city of 20. 100 WW points= 10 added unhappy-faces in a city of 20.

Now that's assuming you did it all in one turn. if you have 100 or fewer WW points (roughly, one unhappy face per 2 population if no modifiers) then you lose 1 WW point per turn.

 

[Mesousa]

Your unit attacks their unit=+3 if you lose, +1 if you win
Their unit attacks your unit =+2 (win or lose)
You capture a unit=+1
Your unit is captured=+2

When you capture an unprotected enemy worker, do you just get the +1 for the capture, or does moving into his tile count as an attack so you get at a total of +2 (+1 for succesful attack, +1 for capture)?

WW being based on attacks, not kills, makes the BTS flanking attacks of cavalry units on siege units extremly effective in terms of actual results v WW.

 

[DaviddesJ]

Does anyone know what function converts the fraction to an interger, since unhappy faces must be intergers?

I have seen cases where a city of size 2 has -1 WW, and a city of size 4 also has -1 WW. So this is inconsistent with just multiplying the population by a factor and taking the floor. There must be something more complicated.

 

[da_Vinci]

I have seen cases where a city of size 2 has -1 WW, and a city of size 4 also has -1 WW. So this is inconsistent with just multiplying the population by a factor and taking the floor. There must be something more complicated.

Is what you describe observed at in the same game, at the same point in time for the same civ? That certainly would require something more complicated.

I must say that since I have been looking more closely at it, it does seem to behave pretty consistent with a floor function, but there might be some additional nuances? The floor assumption has been useful to predict the WW behavior in most cases so far ...

dV

 

[DaviddesJ]

Is what you describe observed at in the same game, at the same point in time for the same civ?

Yes, it was.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Sorry if someone's already asked this, but here's a situation:

I have a unit standing in my culture zone.

The AI has a unit standing in their culture zone.

I attack the enemy unit with my unit. Does that act of combat count as happening in MY zone (because it initiated from my zone) or HIS zone (because it was targeted in his zone)?

I do a lot of border warfare...

 

[cabert]

Sorry if someone's already asked this, but here's a situation:

I have a unit standing in my culture zone.

The AI has a unit standing in their culture zone.

I attack the enemy unit with my unit. Does that act of combat count as happening in MY zone (because it initiated from my zone) or HIS zone (because it was targeted in his zone)?

I do a lot of border warfare...

his zone.
just the same as the fact that the terrain defense is the tile where the target stands.

 

[Skallagrimson]

Good to know. Will need to revise my border skirmishing policy then!

 

[_alphaBeta_]

Keep in mind that it isn't necessarily the owner of the tile. If you're righting in recently conquered lands against a third party, both you and the third party will accrue WW. It's the civ with the highest culture percentage on the tile.