Warmonger penalty is to high

[pietro1990]

so i played civ 6 for about 6 hours and i saw some major flaw in this game. The casic belli doesn't work at all.


I saw a lets play where a player used a formal war (denouncing the Ai and after 5 turns declare"s war). Sudddenly the whole world denounced him. I thought that was just only in his game

so i tried it out i declared war on in the medievel era using the formal war(denouncing AI and then atacking). Wich cause sthe entire world to denounce. seems to me warmonger penalties are way to high even with reduction of formal war everyone hates you just for declaring...

I al a little bit dissapointed. They did a good job at brave new world for warmonger penalty but they took a step backwards.

in my game nobody declared war on eachother only at city states. it seems that the high warmonger penalty makes the Ai less agressive...

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Yeah... I'd make DOW penalty lower, but make city penalties higher.

 

[Selereth]

Right now the AI is so afraid of declaring war in the medieval era and beyond because of the insanely high warmonger penalties. This means that you can just go around declaring war on the weaker civs and the stronger civs won't ever retaliate by declaring war on you.

 

[Cabbagesavager]

so i played civ 6 for about 6 hours and i saw some major flaw in this game. The casic belli doesn't work at all.


I saw a lets play where a player used a formal war (denouncing the Ai and after 5 turns declare"s war). Sudddenly the whole world denounced him. I thought that was just only in his game

so i tried it out i declared war on in the medievel era using the formal war(denouncing AI and then atacking). Wich cause sthe entire world to denounce. seems to me warmonger penalties are way to high even with reduction of formal war everyone hates you just for declaring...

I al a little bit dissapointed. They did a good job at brave new world for warmonger penalty but they took a step backwards.

in my game nobody declared war on eachother only at city states. it seems that the high warmonger penalty makes the Ai less agressive...

I declared war on a city state and everyone denounced me. So I gave up on building good relations and became a full-time warmonger.

 

[GhostSalsa]

I al a little bit dissapointed. They did a good job at brave new world for warmonger penalty but they took a step backwards.

Wow, 3 threads for the declare-denounce problems at once.!While i agree being denounced for declaring is broken, and while i won't touch the game until I hear this (and other things) are fixed, I don't think we can say anything was "fixed" in BNW.

BNW prioritizing city-taking over declarations freed the player up to do a lot of things, but it helped make diplomacy a pointlessly easy game of "create bad guy and steal all his cities." BNW acknowledged that in CiV, a balance between role-play warfare (especially mid-game stomping of neighbors) and tea-time diplomacy with the AI was never achieved, so the latter was torpedoed.

Now tea-time diplomacy is back in, and of course it's a mess right now.

Also, BNW's focus on city-taking/liberating didn't let you do everything. You couldn't simply stomp some neighbors with Poland's incredible lancers just because you had them, which, if you think about it, means you couldn't have fun with Poland's lancers without tanking your expansion game. I have played so so so many BNW domination games, and all mid-game conquest was against early expanders who were so far behind in tech, that all Medeival and Ren. special units were pointless (save for Berserkers, who are great for just this).

 

[CaiusDrewart]

Yeah... I'd make DOW penalty lower, but make city penalties higher.

I'd make the DOW penalty lower, and the city penalties lower too.

 

[elitetroops]

I think warmonger penalties should scale with how much the other civs like the target being attacked. If I declare on someone's declared friend, then I can allow penalties from them to be as high as now. If they have neutral relations, they should be slightly lower, if someone dislikes or has denounced the war target, the penalties should be way lower and if someone is already at war with the target they should not think I'm a warmonger at all for helping them out.

In addition, it would be way more flavorful if it varied between different leaders. Has anyone seen, does Gorgo give as high penalties as all other leaders? Her agenda is supposed to be that she dislikes people who have never been at war... I'd like to see some AI who actually likes you for declaring war, and some peaceful AI who might even give higher warmonger penalties than other.

 

[yutterh]

I don't know, how exactly did you go to war after denouncing them? Did you wait 5 turns and then jsut attack or did you go back at tell them saying "hey im going to war with you now." cause that only gives you a six on a warmonger scale. If you marched into their lands or declared war on their turn you still get the full penalty. Also did you check the other civilizations problems with you? the warmonger penalty alone shouldn't make eveyrone war with you unless you had no positive points and only penalties. In my current playthrough as rome. I was attacked twice, first attack i repeled them, then sued for peace. Second attack they suprised war me and they were hated by everyone. I declared war on another nation the correct way. Denouncing and then telling them after 5 turns, well they were denounced for longer then that before i finally attacked lol. Anyways and i still had nations tha tliked me, because iw as trading with those other nations. making deals and offering gifts. No nation has declared war on me sense and i was in a two front war. Maybe you didn't realize how others disliked you already or something.

 

[remconius]

Here is my experience with warmonger penalty. I has denounced egypt and was ready for a formal war after 5 turns. When I declared a formal war my warmonger penalty with other civs was -16 instead of -24 for surprise war. Quite high but the relations I had built up with France and US were strong enough to stay friends.

And the good thing was, every turn the warmonger penalty decreases by 1. So keeping peace improves this situation clearly.

 

[pietro1990]

Here is my experience with warmonger penalty. I has denounced egypt and was ready for a formal war after 5 turns. When I declared a formal war my warmonger penalty with other civs was -16 instead of -24 for surprise war. Quite high but the relations I had built up with France and US were strong enough to stay friends.

And the good thing was, every turn the warmonger penalty decreases by 1. So keeping peace improves this situation clearly.

So you are saying that it decades faster then in civ 5 ?

 

[pietro1990]

I don't know, how exactly did you go to war after denouncing them? Did you wait 5 turns and then jsut attack or did you go back at tell them saying "hey im going to war with you now." cause that only gives you a six on a warmonger scale. If you marched into their lands or declared war on their turn you still get the full penalty. Also did you check the other civilizations problems with you? the warmonger penalty alone shouldn't make eveyrone war with you unless you had no positive points and only penalties. In my current playthrough as rome. I was attacked twice, first attack i repeled them, then sued for peace. Second attack they suprised war me and they were hated by everyone. I declared war on another nation the correct way. Denouncing and then telling them after 5 turns, well they were denounced for longer then that before i finally attacked lol. Anyways and i still had nations tha tliked me, because iw as trading with those other nations. making deals and offering gifts. No nation has declared war on me sense and i was in a two front war. Maybe you didn't realize how others disliked you already or something.

Denounced them and after 6 turns i used the formal war to atack them didn't take any cities just liberate a city state. This was in the medievel era thir results in everyone hating me. even at modern era

 

[MistyRonin]

I have to agree, after few games, I feel like the warmonger penalty is slightly too high.

F.i. I declared one formal war during the medieval era, and almost all civs denounced me (except Gorgo that liked me more...).

 

[pietro1990]

I have to agree, after few games, I feel like the warmonger penalty is slightly too high.

F.i. I declared one formal war during the medieval era, and almost all civs denounced me (except Gorgo that liked me more...).

Yes and the problem is its a big penalty for declaring war.. So even if you declare to liberate a city state you still get denounced