Xtended for Master of Mana Alpha v5

[esvath]

Any comments on balances, your ideas etc are welcome

 

[Aurelazza]

I've played a couple of games and so far I'm loving almost all of it. Your team's doing a great job and I absolutely can't wait for the implementation of separate Planes. If I had to nitpick, though...

I honestly can't say that I'm a fan of the rebalanced strength values. Kael and his team were quite careful to balance +, +% and things like affinities and the heroic promotions. Now the gap between tiers feels... wrong.

Creative leaders get a somewhat unfair advantage unlocking Guild techs, and Agnostic ones certainly feel the hurt from losing out on access to all religion-related boons. Especially the FoL/RoK miracles that grant bonus resources. Paying several turns worth of Faith for a permanent +20% in a city is one helluva bargain.

Finally, is the Weapon Master discipline really supposed to grant poison damage and the ability to pass on poison weakness?

Those issues aside, I think it's great.

Edit: Mind if I ask where in the XML/Python it dictates which artstyle of Quarry/Workshop/Etc. is assigned to which civ? I'd love to spruce up the graphics for the bastardized mish-mash of modmods I play for my own personal amusement.

 

[Deon]

I'm loving the guilds. At first I was like "meh, another limitation on what you can research", but after a few games I realise that it actually makes games more varied and your choice greatly affects your game style, so once you learn guilds you can pick the one you want for your current game and it will actually provide great benefits.

I have a suggestion to nerf a bard. +200 culture for 1 combat is too much. Make it around 50 and give a good combataura, then it will be logical (bards increase morale) and less broken (with 200 culture you can go up the guilds path very quickly with just a few dedicated bards killing wildlife). Or maybe make it so the amount of culture is dependent on the strength and level of the enemy (songs about wolf hunting should get old really fast).

I've also noticed that winning as additional races (i.e. Scions) does not provide a special achievement. Making achievements is not that hard, could you please add it?

I've noticed a few typos but forgot them already . Next time I will write them down.

 

[Calavente]

I hear what you say Calavante, same situation here. We are re-doing the floors at our house, plus a 3 1/2, and 14 year olds.....madness.

..On a game note the time I have had was enjoyable, nothing I can recall off hand to report otherwise.

haha. I've "only" the 3 1/2 and 1... no teenager yet.. ouf..

I have a suggestion to nerf a bard. +200 culture for 1 combat is too much. Make it around 50 and give a good combataura, then it will be logical (bards increase morale) and less broken (with 200 culture you can go up the guilds path very quickly with just a few dedicated bards killing wildlife). Or maybe make it so the amount of culture is dependent on the strength and level of the enemy (songs about wolf hunting should get old really fast).

some idea : may you link the culture to the xp gained? (it would the be a meter for the difficulty of the fight): like :50culture/xp or 20culture/xp. I've no idea where would be the balance. . but then, killing a wolf would bring few xp and few culture.. while killing a hero will give you 20+xp.. so much culture.

for str and % and all, I agree with you and I think I made this comment on alpha once. but as I only played once, it is mainly a gut-fealing and not based on much gameplay, so it might come from real balanced reason I missed.
-most units of a same tiers seems to have same str while the bigger str could help allow a smoother transition
-all units have bigger def than attack... strange imo,
-%str became stronger than +1 or +2 str promotion, which was not the case before. now a +20%str is at least +1.5str (warrior) or +3str (horse/axe) so getting the heroic attack promotion or any other +1str promo (+1str) instead of combat IV is dumb.
(an +1str is not much bonus against an other unit... before, a +1str warrior had 25% more str than the other warrior and got way better odds.. not it is only +12%str, and +8% for an axe (instead of +20%))

so maybe +str should be increased in value (promotions, strenght potion, maybe equipments...etc) or at least rebalanced

 

[esvath]

I've played a couple of games and so far I'm loving almost all of it. Your team's doing a great job and I absolutely can't wait for the implementation of separate Planes. If I had to nitpick, though...

I honestly can't say that I'm a fan of the rebalanced strength values. Kael and his team were quite careful to balance +, +% and things like affinities and the heroic promotions. Now the gap between tiers feels... wrong.

for str and % and all, I agree with you and I think I made this comment on alpha once. but as I only played once, it is mainly a gut-fealing and not based on much gameplay, so it might come from real balanced reason I missed.
-most units of a same tiers seems to have same str while the bigger str could help allow a smoother transition
-all units have bigger def than attack... strange imo,
-%str became stronger than +1 or +2 str promotion, which was not the case before. now a +20%str is at least +1.5str (warrior) or +3str (horse/axe) so getting the heroic attack promotion or any other +1str promo (+1str) instead of combat IV is dumb.
(an +1str is not much bonus against an other unit... before, a +1str warrior had 25% more str than the other warrior and got way better odds.. not it is only +12%str, and +8% for an axe (instead of +20%))

so maybe +str should be increased in value (promotions, strenght potion, maybe equipments...etc) or at least rebalanced

Yep. I think so too. While the additional strength is good because it allow faster tempo (a wounded scout still have good str, unlike in previous versions), I think the exact same str for units in one tier is weird, because it neglect unit/civ special abilities. Vampire should have different str than Battlemage or pure Champions, imho. That is why fine tuning according to each civ's strengths and weaknesses is important to do. I will do this fine-tuning after the core mechanic is locked (no more additional guilds, magic line is complete etc).

Creative leaders get a somewhat unfair advantage unlocking Guild techs, and Agnostic ones certainly feel the hurt from losing out on access to all religion-related boons. Especially the FoL/RoK miracles that grant bonus resources. Paying several turns worth of Faith for a permanent +20% in a city is one helluva bargain.

Yeah, Creative leaders are more powerful atm, maybe more than Scientific leaders. I will look at this, maybe some malus for them.

EDIT: I am planning to add Grigori-only trait that gives more culture, so that Grigori can advance more in Guilds. Maybe even giving Grigori one more addition guild slot.

Finally, is the Weapon Master discipline really supposed to grant poison damage and the ability to pass on poison weakness?

Haha, yeah it is intended. Maybe I will change the class' name from Weapon Master to something else.

Edit: Mind if I ask where in the XML/Python it dictates which artstyle of Quarry/Workshop/Etc. is assigned to which civ? I'd love to spruce up the graphics for the bastardized mish-mash of modmods I play for my own personal amusement.

I don't know where it is, but it should be somewhere within "Assets/XML/Arts" or "Assets/XML/Terrain".

I have a suggestion to nerf a bard. +200 culture for 1 combat is too much. Make it around 50 and give a good combataura, then it will be logical (bards increase morale) and less broken (with 200 culture you can go up the guilds path very quickly with just a few dedicated bards killing wildlife). Or maybe make it so the amount of culture is dependent on the strength and level of the enemy (songs about wolf hunting should get old really fast).

some idea : may you link the culture to the xp gained? (it would the be a meter for the difficulty of the fight): like :50culture/xp or 20culture/xp. I've no idea where would be the balance. . but then, killing a wolf would bring few xp and few culture.. while killing a hero will give you 20+xp.. so much culture.

These re a good suggestion but I have not find a way to use xp gained to calculate culture per combat yield. So, for quick balance, I will reduce the culture per combat gained to 100.

I've also noticed that winning as additional races (i.e. Scions) does not provide a special achievement. Making achievements is not that hard, could you please add it?

If you can point me how to create achievement, I will add it.

I've noticed a few typos but forgot them already . Next time I will write them down.

If it is in the pedia, send it to Graywarden, he will be happy to include your corrections. If it is unit name, spell name etc, feel free to send it to me.

I am glad you like it, guys!

 

[Aurelazza]

EDIT: I am planning to add Grigori-only trait that gives more culture, so that Grigori can advance more in Guilds. Maybe even giving Grigori one more addition guild slot.

Awesome. Be sure to give some love to the Illians and Aristrakh, too!

 

[esvath]

Awesome. Be sure to give some love to the Illians and Aristrakh, too!

Illians will have pseudo-religion with faith-based miracles and rituals. While Aristrakh is tesb's baby, so I think it would be best to wait for him.

 

[Alexej]

I am lame or something :-/ I do install Mom Alpha into Master of Mana Beta folder (default) then patch v 5 which want`s to instal into Master of Mana Beta\Master of Mana Beta folder by default, which i`ll correct. Then i do copy Xtended and Xtended graphics and overwrite. Rename folder to Master of Mana and run.
I can`t really find guilds (maybe not tried hard enough) summonia tab is broken (only see two icons for spells) and everything has strange stats like 9/10 Warrior (hope that`s bug)
Any advice? Want to try this really

 

[esvath]

I am lame or something :-/ I do install Mom Alpha into Master of Mana Beta folder (default) then patch v 5 which want`s to instal into Master of Mana Beta\Master of Mana Beta folder by default, which i`ll correct. Then i do copy Xtended and Xtended graphics and overwrite. Rename folder to Master of Mana and run.
I can`t really find guilds (maybe not tried hard enough) summonia tab is broken (only see two icons for spells) and everything has strange stats like 9/10 Warrior (hope that`s bug)
Any advice? Want to try this really

Hey Alexej, it's nice to see you around!

Let's check the necessary steps to install Master of Mana Alpha:

1. Install Master of Mana Alpha (in Master of Mana Beta folder)
2. Install Patch v5 (also in Master of Mana Beta folder)
3. Install Xtended for Alpha (also in Master of Mana Beta folder)
4. Install Xtended Graphic if you want (also in Master of Mana Beta)
5. rename Master of Mana Beta to Master of Mana

You can enter the Guild screen using one of the little buttons on the top-right screen (the shortcut is F9, if I not mistaken).

Summonia broken is as intended (I will polish magic tech trees in the future version).

Unit with strange strength (9/10, 22/26) is also as intended.

 

[Alexej]

Ah-ha, then i have it installed right summonia tab convinced me otherwise so now i am ready to play, after work. I`ll never miss any of your modmods for MoM, you won me with your graphics long ago and i like Xtended very much too...

 

[esvath]

Try to check the Guilds by clicking the button (tooltip will show as "Noble House" iirc). Have fun, and please share your thoughts on this version!

 

[Aurelazza]

I don't know where it is, but it should be somewhere within "Assets/XML/Arts" or "Assets/XML/Terrain".:

The artwork itself is in Art/Structures/Improvements/New/ and the art references are in XML/Buildings/CIV4LPlotSystem. So here's an example of what I've got:

		</ArtRef>
		<ArtRef Name="goal:IMPROVEMENT_QUARRY">
			<Attribute Class="Improvement">IMPROVEMENT_QUARRY</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Artstyle">ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Era">ERA_ALL</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Scalar">bIsPartOfImprovement:1</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Scalar">bApplyRotation:1</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Scalar">NIF:Art/Structures/Improvements/New/Khazad/Quarry/Gauriminingpost.nif</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Scalar"></Attribute>
			<Scale>12</Scale>
		</ArtRef>

But I can't for the life of me find the bit that assigns that Khazad Quarry to Khazad players. The <Attribute Class="Artstyle">ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD</Attribute>. I'm suspecting it's in Python...

 

[esvath]

Looking at the CIV4PlotLSystem.xml, I guess this is where you define which nif files go to ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD.

Then, this ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD is applied to Khazad civ in CIV4CivilizationInfos.xml at this line:

        <CivilizationInfo>
            <Type>CIVILIZATION_KHAZAD</Type>
            <Description>TXT_KEY_CIV_KHAZAD_DESC</Description>
            <ShortDescription>TXT_KEY_CIV_KHAZAD_SHORT_DESC</ShortDescription>
            <Adjective>TXT_KEY_CIV_KHAZAD_ADJECTIVE</Adjective>
            <Civilopedia>TXT_KEY_CIV_KHAZAD_PEDIA</Civilopedia>
            <DefaultPlayerColor>PLAYERCOLOR_KHAZAD</DefaultPlayerColor>
            <ArtDefineTag>ART_DEF_CIVILIZATION_KHAZAD</ArtDefineTag>
            [B]<ArtStyleType>ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD</ArtStyleType>[/B]
            <UnitArtStyleType>UNIT_ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD</UnitArtStyleType>
            <bPlayable>1</bPlayable>
            <bAIPlayable>1</bAIPlayable>

Try to change ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD to ARTSTYLE_LJOSALVAR in this file, run a game as Khazad and see if your cities looks like Ljosalvar,

 

[Alexej]

This is my first time playing new alpha MoM (cause of waiting for extended graphics ) it`s very interesting, was allmost 300 turns into custom standart map with Bannor when lost crushed by Illians. It was somewhat new to me, funny, greatly enjoyable game with only one exception. Those Slavers and Overseers are bit too popular, cause whole Illian army was them really saw only few Javelin Throwers and adepts with them.
I like this modmod, and wan`t you to continue your great work! I will play and maybe report more later

 

[esvath]

Yeah, current released version has Slaver and Overseer plagued the workd. Even good civs were adopting Slavery

I try to tweak this, hopefully this will be fixed in the next version.

 

[Aurelazza]

Try to change ARTSTYLE_KHAZAD to ARTSTYLE_LJOSALVAR in this file, run a game as Khazad and see if your cities looks like Ljosalvar.

Thank you!

 

[ostar]

Does this mod use the Over/Under Councils? If they do, a number of those vote options may still use the default United Nations text from Civ4. I fixed a number of those for Tholal's More Naval AI mod recently - I could do the same for this mod if you wish.

 

[esvath]

Does this mod use the Over/Under Councils? If they do, a number of those vote options may still use the default United Nations text from Civ4. I fixed a number of those for Tholal's More Naval AI mod recently - I could do the same for this mod if you wish.

Yes, this mod use Over/Undercouncils. AFAIK, the resolutions are exactly the same with the ones from vanilla FfH. Your help is very much welcomed!

 

[ostar]

Yes, this mod use Over/Undercouncils. AFAIK, the resolutions are exactly the same with the ones from vanilla FfH. Your help is very much welcomed!

Attached are the fixes. Only 5 old UN entries were still used by FFH. For the OC, Assign City, Force Peace, Force War, and No Trade. The UC had only Force War. The attached file CIV4VoteInfo.xml has those old descriptions linked instead to the new TXT_KEY_VOTE entry for those 5. The second file, CIV4GameText_FFH2_VOTE.xml, has those 5 entries. I just changed the occurrence of UN to Over/UnderCouncil. This file could stand alone in your XML\Text folder. it would probably be best to just insert those 5 entries into your CIV4GameText_FFH2.xml file in the same folder, though. Just put them in the same spot as the other existing TXT_KEY_VOTE entries.

 

[esvath]

Thanks, ostar!