Guerilla promotion line beats Woodsman

Woodsman or Guerilla promotion line?

  • Woodsman promotion line

    Votes: 42 48.8%

  • Guerilla promotion line

    Votes: 14 16.3%

  • mixed both are useful

    Votes: 17 19.8%

  • neither are useful

    Votes: 13 15.1%
  • Total voters
    86
IAM

IAM

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Woodsman promotion line available to:
Recon (I and II only)
Melee
Gunpowder

Woodsman I
+20% Jungle/Forest Defense

Woodsman II
Double Movement Jungle/Forest
+30% Defense Jungle/Forest

Woodsman III
2 first strikes
heals units in same tile extra 15% damage/turn
+50% Attack Jungle/Forest

Guerilla promotion line available to:
Archery
Recon (I and II only)
Melee (Celts only <under certain circumstances>)
Gunpowder

Guerilla I
+20% Hills Defense

Guerilla II
Double Movement Hills
+30% Hills Defense

Guerilla III
+50% Withdrawal Chance
+25% Hills Attack

The Woodsman promotion line is slightly better in the early game when there are still lots of jungle/forest. In the longrun however the Guerilla line is tops. Guerilla promotion line is available to archery units, hills don't get cut down, and the +50% withdrawal chance with guerilla III is an under utilized promotion. Both these promotions lines can give significant advantage to Monty, Brennus and Boudica if utilized to the fullest.
 
In your "Guerilla promotion line available to" you list "melee".
You should have (Celts only) next to melee as no other melee can get guerilla promotions.
I voted for mixed.
I like woods3, 2 1st strike healers, and hills3 withdrawl longbows fortified on my hill Iron resourse.
Both have their uses, and not all units will have just these two types of promotions. CR3s are nice too.

So, I vote mixed.
 
i almost never use this promotions (except for the early war scout), so have a question on functionality.

the 3rd tier looks on paper nicely, but the attack bonus is counted when you attack on a tile that is forrest/jungle/hill or if you attack from a tile which is forrest/jungle/hill?

the withdrawal chance is universal or bound to hills too?
 
IAM said:
Thank you. Corrected.
Click to expand...
You will have to correct that again ;) Celtic melee has as much acess to guerilla as the rest of melee in game ( that is , none ) if they don't start with Guerilla I. The only celtic melee unit that does start with it is, by acident, the UU :D

P.S The withdrawn of Guerilla III is universal.
 
Frequently woodsman 3 on a couple of units mainly for the :health:, and the first strikes are a nice bonus. But for combat purposes, i.e. the bulk of the army I would always rather have CR, CG or combat than spend 3 promos just to get the guerilla 3 benefit. Occasionally use a guerilla 1 archer for fogbusting.

Voted woody.
 
IAM said:
I made an ambiguous correction to cover a possible third correction. :(
Click to expand...

or you could be extremely specific like:
Gallic Warrior and all Celt melee when the dun is present in that city, except for axemen. For some unknown reason axemen are excluded and not counted as melee for dun purposes, which could improve fan support for Celts.
But, that seems a bit lengthy. :)

Also, Celts, as above, and all gunpowder units can use both promotions on the same unit.
So, a woods3/hills3 Gallic Warrior fully fortified on a forest/hill in a fort would have a combined combat strength of 6 + 50%x6 +50%x6 +25%x6 + 50%x6 +25%x6 +25%x6= 19.5
An excellent defense, considering the time you can build him.
A great way to block a choke point.
 
IAM said:
hills don't get cut down
Click to expand...

They should let you cut down hills in the lategame. And plant forests too ;)


I don't much like either line. The 2FS for Woods III just makes your medic a target and gets it killed. Guerilla III looks good on paper, but withdrawn units are out of action for a long time until they heal, and you get better odds attacking hills by just taking Combat III. I don't consider either unless I can get them on newly trained units.

If you do manage to get 5xp on an early Warrior then Woods II is excellent for scouting. Without huts though it's rare (maybe one in 3 games for me - when I actually have a warrior to begin with, that is).
 
For some unknown reason axemen are excluded and not counted as melee for dun purposes...
Click to expand...

Haha. I wasn't even aware of that. Probably because if you are the celts you are either...

A. Only going to care about your UU.
B. Only build Dun for your archers.
 
I voted "Neither are useful". Not because they aren't useful - they are - but the opportunity cost of forgoing other promotions for the useless I/II promotion is high.
 
Hang on a second...I love playing with Celts and GIII stacks, but I don't believe I have ever seen free GI from a spear or mace built in a city with Dun.
 
Celtic melee (warrior, spear, axe) do not get promoted from dun, because it's not an allowed promotion for melee units. Gallic warrior gets it from its special rule clause, not from dun.
 
Either can be very efficient use of promo's, terrain depending.
 
Woodsman, because WM3's healing bonus can come in handy. Also, it is available to melee units, while Guerilla isn't - the only early units that can take Guerilla are archery, which I don't attack with.
 
Woodsman easily. The healing bonus is great, especially for early warfare since there'll still be trees everywhere.
Guerilla... almost worthless. Unless you're going up against someone with a hill city, it's a complete waste. That's why the Celts typically rate as the worst civ or among the worst civs. A building I don't always build that will give my units a promotion that is practically worthless except for certain maps? Oh boy!
At least Saladin gets a great UB, as does Sitting Bull.
 
I did a check in the civopedia out of curiosity. Interesting, as it states that the Dun gives the free promotion to ALL units built in the city. Haha, typical lying Firaxis.

IIRC the Dun was a very close choice for worst UB in one of the other threads. I also am sure that most those votes for Dun as second last instead of last place were not aware of just how truely bad the Dun really was, and that would most likely have changed the results a lot.

Anyway, Woodsman wins out here easily. Both before and after. Your Guerilla promo line isn't for those who are trying to win battles, but for those who are trying not to lose. Try a few deity games and you'll find out pretty quick how bad such a thing is.
 
obsolete said:
I did a check in the civopedia out of curiosity. Interesting, as it states that the Dun gives the free promotion to ALL units built in the city. Haha, typical lying Firaxis.
Click to expand...
Do you expect Navigation I given to your catapults built in cities with Trading post? ;) The wording is exactly the same ... and does not say "ALL", btw.
 
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