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Éa III: unit art we still need, organized and prioritized

Discussion in 'Éa Fantasy Mod Project' started by Pazyryk, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    The older Art thread has gotten somewhat outdated - thanks to Nomad or What and Civtar! So I thought I'd start another thread where we could sort out what we still need. All of these below either aren't in the mod yet or currently use placeholder art.

    Listed roughly in order of priority:

    • Mûmakil, both "natural wandering animal" and "captured/outfitted for war". I figure that the humanoids riding on top will be small enough that all races can use the same unit. But if someone wanted to make 3 versions for Man, Sidhe and Heldeofol, that would be fine also.
    • A few units missing from basic line-up, plus "upgrades" (the latter can be reskins of existing units):
      • Elf Chariot (coming from Civtar)
      • 2 upgrades each for elf and goblin archers (upgrade path: Archer->Bowmen->Marksmen)
      • 2 upgrades for elf horse-mounted archer (Horse Archer->Bowed Cavalry->Sagittarii)
      • (upgrades for some human unit lines too, but I've forgotten at the moment what is missing...)
    • Angels and Demons (at least 1 kind of each; I'll add others if we get them).
    • The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (FFH's are fine).
    • Great Bombard I want this unit because it is cool! they go back to 1500's so predate more modern cannons.
    • At least one more sea monster of any kind.
    • A giant whale (fits into the Song of Leviathan lore).
    • A full-fledged Dragon. Not just a walking Godzilla but one that can do both melee attack and a strafing attack (that is or at least looks like an air attack). From the Lua perspective, it's easy for me to swap between two units if we need to add these as 1 melee and 1 air unit. But I also wonder if it is possible to add an "air-like" attack animation as the unit's ranged attack animation. Then we could have one unit that has both melee and ranged attack (this works) with the ranged attack being very long range and looking like an air attack. [The latter might not work because, if I understand correctly, an air attack is actually a unit move.]

    It's a lower priority, but over time I'd like to improve and fill out our single-unit GPs. See next post for that.

    We also need a whole lot of individual units for each of the archangels, archdemons and major spirits. I don't really expect anyone to sit down and make 57 unique units for us. But basically anytime any artist makes a cool looking unit that could pass as a sort of god (when enlarged) I can add it as one of these. Names and some idea of their individual sphere can be found at the links below. Almost all the names can be found in a quick search on the Wiki, which can give some inspiration for their physical form.
    • 12 archangels and 8 archdemons. These are listed by name here in the last paragraphs under Azzandarayasna and Aŋra, respectively. Right now I'm using the Great Unclean One as placeholder art for all Archdemons (he's perfect for Gannag Menog, the "Stinking Spirit", but the others need their own model) and another unit as placeholder for all Archangels.
    • 37 pantheistic gods ("Major Spirits") listed here by name (in the Cult sections). These all have a storm giant as placeholder art right now.


    I've probably forgotten something important in the list. Mod testers feel free to comment if you've noticed some obvious placeholder unit that isn't in list above.

    Also, as many of you have noticed, we are missing individual icons for almost all new units. Filling those in is going to be a long-term process. Anyone is welcome to help us do that (except for Nomad or What and Civtar, who should be making more 3D art instead).
     
  2. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Art needed for Great People.

    These all will be somewhat enlarged "single-member" units. It's not the case now but I want them all to be truly single member, so no camel with the merchant, no cart with engineer, etc. It just so happens that I have more 2D portraits for females than males, but then 3D art is very badly skewed in the opposite direction...

    (List is work in progress.)

    F = Female, M = Male, A = Ambiguous (hard to tell anyway so one model works)

    Engineer, Human, F
    Engineer, Human, M --base graphic would work, assuming the person member can be separated from cart
    Engineer, Sidhe, F
    Engineer, Sidhe, M
    Engineer, Orc, A
    Engineer, Goblin, A

    Merchant, Human, F
    Merchant, Human, M --same comment as above
    Merchant, Sidhe, F
    Merchant, Sidhe, M

    Sage, Human, F
    Sage, Human, M --same comment as above
    Sage, Sidhe, F
    Sage, Sidhe, M

    Alechemist, Human, F
    Alechemist, Human, M
    Alechemist, Sidhe, F
    Alechemist, Sidhe, M

    Artist, Human, F --current "tambourine girl" isn't too bad
    Artist, Human, M
    Artist, Sidhe, F
    Artist, Sidhe, M

    Could-be-any-GP, Orc, A
    Could-be-any-GP, Goblin, A
    [Merchants, Sages and Artists are so rare that one unit will suffice for all of these]

    Warrior, Human, F --To Do: add Female Longswordsman
    Warrior, Human, M --currently Praetorian (I think)
    Warrior, Sidhe, F
    Warrior, Sidhe, M
    Warrior, Orc, A
    Warrior, Goblin, A

    Sea Warrior, Human, F
    Sea Warrior, Human, M
    Sea Warrior, Sidhe, F
    Sea Warrior, Sidhe, M
    Sea Warrior, Orc, A
    Sea Warrior, Goblin, A
    [Sword, no armor or very light armor, with Viking horns I guess]

    Paladin, Human, F --a simple reskin of female longswordsman might work
    Paladin, Human, M --currently uses base Longswordsman (I think)
    [A fancier, holier version of Warrior. I think of them as having shiny silver armor.]

    Eidolon, Human, F
    Eidolon, Human, M
    Eidolon, Sidhe, F
    Eidolon, Sidhe, M
    Eidolon, Orc, A
    [Opposite of above. A blatantly evil great warrior. Perhaps with black armor.]

    Witch, Human, F
    Warlock, Human, M
    Witch, Sidhe, F
    Warlock, Sidhe, M
    [Female should be something like classic witch with pointy hat (although riding a broomstick is going too far). Maybe warlock needs scullcap. This is the most "primitive" of the arcane spellcasters. Brown and/or black could work.]

    Wizard, Human, F
    Wizard, Human, M --Nomad or What's "Gandalf(Wizard)"
    Wizard, Sidhe, F
    Wizard, Sidhe, M
    [I'm happy with the Gandolf cliché for male. Not sure what is needed for female. These can be good or evil in the game, but in appearance they should pass as good or neutral.]

    Sorcerer, Human, F
    Sorcerer, Human, M
    Sorcerer, Sidhe, F
    Sorcerer, Sidhe, M
    [This is the evil (or at least very ambivalent) counterpart to wizard. I imagine them as the power-hungry kind of spellcaster. Red comes to mind for color.]

    Illusionist, Human, F
    Illusionist, Human, M
    Illusionist, Sidhe, F
    Illusionist, Sidhe, M
    [Something flashy I guess. These spellcasters are all about appearance and perception. Maybe a rainbow of colors?]

    Necromancer, Human, F
    Necromancer, Human, M
    Necromancer, Sidhe, F
    Necromancer, Sidhe, M
    [Black or maybe a deep purple and obviously evil. Not a Lich yet but on the way to that.]

    Could-be-any-arcane, Orc, A
    Could-be-any-arcane, Goblin, A
    [Arcane casters are rare for these races so one-model-fits-all would work]

    Lich, race & sex ambiguous
    [The only undead GP]

    Priest or Fallen Priest, Human, F
    Priest or Fallen Priest, Human, M --Civtar's "Wizard" (the one in black)
    Priest or Fallen Priest, Sidhe, F
    Priest or Fallen Priest, Sidhe, M
    [Should be "paternalistic" in appearance, which is why I like Civtar's Wizard. I'm not sure what the female counterpart should look like. Perhaps a female form and face in the same black robes would be fine.]

    Druid, Human, F
    Druid, Human, M --currently uses one of the 3 barbarian brute members
    Druid, Sidhe, F
    Druid, Sidhe, M
    [Not paternalistic. Should be strong, vital and maybe a little bit scary. Not evil, but not good either. It's basically a "nature priest". Think of Celts. I've grown to like the antler horns in the current placeholder unit.]

    Shaman or Fallen Priest, Orc, A
    Shaman or Fallen Priest, Goblin, A
    [One unit fits both here. Basically an orc or goblin priest.]


    If anyone has suggestions from either modder-added units or base units, please post. Even if it is just a temporary improvement from current placeholder. It's going to be a very incremental process getting all of these 3D units into the mod.
     
  3. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    NOTES:

    Mûmakil - I am thinking that basic elephant animations may work for this but haven't looked into it yet. Finding source art may be another matter; perhaps there is some in BfMEII, so I will check. Also, please list any additional animals you may need (if any); some are more difficult than others since there are presently no decent animations for them (like a "charge" animation).

    Goblin Archer - upgrades are done and have been for quite some time (i.e., at least a month); check the Goblin Series thread.

    FFH 4 Horseman - easily done, but I don't really like them so am passing on them for now while hoping to find something better.

    Angel - my current project; I am working on it! I am trying to find right animations so that the wings move instead of being static; a flying version would be even better. This is an in-depth project for me because the custom animations, once complete, will allow many new units to use them (angels, demons, devils, harpies, etc.). Hopefully I will get this to the forum within a week or two (I already have some candidates).

    Sea monster - see my post on Civitar's thread here and let me know which one you would like.

    Full-fledged Dragon - also a long-term project; please see my comments from this thread. Basically I will use Chalid's dragon converted by Civitar (because there are over 20 skins for it from various mods) and make it a flyer but much sleeker (still using the same mesh and textures, however). I am looking into existing animations, but regardless I think that I will need to create custom animations for it; that will take a while. I can create animations, but I am still not that good at it - I will conquer this once I have some of the basic skills mastered!
     
  4. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    Spoiler :


    What about this?

    Spoiler :


    I haven't gotten around to importing this yet because I have so much other stuff to get done. Females are priority as well since there are so few of them. Speaking of which, the unmounted Beastmaster unit is done, she has been added to the thread. You're welcome :p .
     

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  5. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Great!

    Sorry, I missed the goblin archer upgrades. (Or maybe I added them and forgot! I'll check.)

    "Sea Dragon" is definitely the best of the 4 as an additional sea monster. (The Sea Turtle is kind of interesting if it could walk up on shore ... but not good enough to prioritize.)

    Mûmakil - Seems like stretching out existing elephant proportions may work, but I don't have any sense of the difficulty in this sort of thing. They don't have to match Peter Jackson's LOTR animals as far as I'm concerned, although maybe that's what you get anyway if you do standard giantification (making head smaller in proportion, etc).

    I have a whale in my list - ah! here's the Civ4 model. No other animals are "needed", although I'll probably add more to mod if they happen to be made.

    Angels - terrific! And since you mention it, I forgot demons/devils in my list but they are priority too (the Tyrinids are OK but really just a placeholder for demons).

    The spell caster in post above would work well as Sorcerer, Necromancer or Warlock. Actually the person fits my idea of Sorcerer the best, although the staff belongs with Warlock or Necromancer.

    Your Beastmaster is needed in phase 4 (why I commented in that thread) - shhhh! don't tell anyone...

    Dragon sounds great as long term project. It has a special place in Éa so I don't want to add it until the unit is really good.
     
  6. Nomad or What

    Nomad or What Wayfarer Supporter

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    Dragons have a special place in anyone's mod... ;) .
     
  7. Civitar

    Civitar Adventurer

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    Paz says to repost this here so her goes.
    Use Hittite War Chariots instead of Danrell's Chariot for melee chariots, since the HWC has all animations running smoothly but Danrell's, like any unit with custom animations, is a bit buggy-looking. For the Elf Chariot, I'm switching out the driver with a normal elf like all the rest and the spearman with an armored elf like the Heavy Swordsman. Do you want me to remove the armor on the horses' backs for the Elf Chariot or is it all right if I leave it for now? Because that is taking me a long time to skin off.
    And Nomad, anyone for whom Dragons don't have a special place in a fantasy setting needs their head screwed on right. Every world should have an unclimbable snow-covered mountain or volcano with a Dragon and hoard under it... even WHFB does, though not in a foreground role.
     
  8. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    I'll let you decide that. Whatever you have posted when I'm adding these (which is still days away for now) will get added to v7. And any future improvements can be added to future versions.

    Post any other suggestion like the Hittite War Chariots here. I had noticed that Danral's chariot was rather strange. There may be other cases where swapping unit art would be an improvement. (Keep suggestions specific and detailed so I don't have to figure anything out or go searching for a unit.)
     
  9. Civitar

    Civitar Adventurer

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    Here's another suggestion - for the Human Marksmen, why not use all the English Longbowman art? No need to use the Composite Bowman stuff twice...
    Also for the Great Bombarde, use the Confederate Napoleon Artillery or whatever it's called from the Civil War scenario, it is big, golden, and has a three man crew as opposed to the usual two. The fxsxml is called confederate_artillery_napoleon, so all the related files will start with that. I've also made an icon for the Great Bombarde that is posted in the non-spell icons thread that matches that unit art.
    If I think of anything else I'll let you know.
     
  10. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    OK, I'll do that.


    On bombards and the great bombard:

    I'm absolutely 100% sure that I saw a modder bombard that looked pretty good. But I can't find it in the units forum right now (I'm sure I have a link to it or already downloaded it at some point). I was planning to add that as the "regular bombard" unit available with Metal Casting + Chemistry. The unit is called "cannons" now but I think I'll change that to "bombards" and then have a "cannons" upgrade at Steel Working.

    Great Bombard is something entirely different. They predate more modern cannons although some were used into the 1800s (but even those were very old). I don't know my Civil War history very well, but I didn't think there was anything like it in that war. I haven't looked at the confederate_artillery_napoleon unit. Is it really a great bombard or is it a fancy cannon? (Your icon in other thread makes me think it is a regular cannon.)

    I was actually going to remove (or disable) this unit until we had appropriate art. It's statistics are really weird so using anything like cannon or regular bombard graphic is just confusing. It doesn't upgrade to or from bombard/cannon. It's available before these (with Iron Working rather than Metal Casting, although the mod requires Chemistry still for all gunpowder units). It's stronger (against cities) and more expensive and very slow (1m). It's really a limited "city buster" unit that rather hard to move around, although it can be moved at sea just fine so can be brought to coastal cities easily.
     
  11. Civitar

    Civitar Adventurer

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    The confederate artillery is basically a cannon, with an immense barrel compared to the normal cannon, an extra crewman, and a much bigger chassis that is still rather small next to the monster of a barrel. The barrel itself is gold-colored and fancily-decorated, but it doesn't look much like the icon really other than color and length.
    However, even if you don't ultimately like the Confederate Artillery, it would still be a good source for animations for the Great Bombarde, whatever it ends up looking like, because it has an extra crew member (a captain to direct fire, a rammer, and a lighter). I personally like the Confederate Artillery once the crew is rerigged to be elves, non-industrial men, dwarves, etc... and I do not intend to make a unit that I don't feel is necessary. If you can convince me that you really need a Great Bombard exactly as used in the Middle Ages I will make one - but this is a fantasy mod, so let's use some imagination sir!;)
    The existing CiV bombard is pretty good, it comes with both big and small (bombard vs mortar I guess) versions. I can't track it down atm, but it is available in the Units database IIRC. It uses cannon animations and effects.
    I've used Great Bombardes in Éa before (as Milesia, I had three of them and had conquered an empire of hitherto unprecedented size in conjunction with 4 Immortals from a lucky source of Mithril before the game broke) and they are very much only siege/city defense units, since they are too slow to use for anything else. Heck, I used Quinqueremes to clear a path through Kraken and pirates for the Bombardes to get to the target faster. Of course once my empire was too big they saw more use as counter-insurgency weapons, but still...
    Basically I love Great Bombardes.
     
  12. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Well, let me try to convince you that it isn't just a cannon (even a very big one) but something else entirely. Heck, they even have individual names! And we aren't limited by reality. But we should at least match it, if not surpass it.

    Dardanelles Gun


    Tsar Cannon


    Mons Meg:


    It's just that sometimes reality approaches fantasy. The one on top (or really something very like it) was brought to the Siege of Constantinople by 60 oxen! The Great Engineer who built it, Orban, actually offered his services to the Byzantines first. But they couldn't pay him so he built it instead for the Ottomans to use against the Byzantines. The Dardanelles Gun itself was made in 1464 and was still in use 350 years later.

    The appeal of these to me is the shear intimidation factor. It's one (one! singular) weapon brought in to take down a city. Regular bombards and cannons are represented in the mod as multi-member units like any other "regular army" unit. But these are meant to appear as singular and huge.

    And, well, since it's fantasy, we can make them even huger if we want, limited only by what works from an art perspective. One thing I've already done is scale down most unit member by just a bit so I could increasing formation numbers. The whole point of that is so that these fantastical single units (Great Bombard, Mumakil, Dragons, etc.) can stand out and really look huge.

    The first two in the images above aren't even iron but rather bronze. So that gets me rethinking the "gunpowder siege" line. All still require Chemistry, but you have:

    Great Bombarde (Bronze Working; requires Copper) expensive & slow but scary as heck! (No upgrade)
    Bombards (Iron Working; requires Iron) upgrades to Cannons
    Cannons (Metal Casting; requires Iron) upgrades to ?
    ? [cannon upgrade] (Steel Working; requires Iron) upgrades to ?
    ? [steampunkish artilery] (Steam Power; requires Iron)

    So the Great Bombard is kind of a one-off unit. It has a strange tech req combination and uses a resource that's kind of underutilized in the mod. It's not worse than bombard/cannon line - but it fills a somewhat different niche since disproportionately stronger against cities but can't be moved quickly on land.
     
  13. BrokenSky

    BrokenSky Warlord

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    I saw a good model, but it was in 4. Rise of Mankind: A new dawn to be precise. Maybe this is the one you were thinking of?

    Steampunkish artilary: possibly either triple barrelled cannon or an organ gun type thing?
     
  14. bouncymischa

    bouncymischa Synthetic Genie

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    Maybe the Farsakh Cannon from the Mughals mod? It looks a lot like the Tsar Cannon...

    EDIT:

     
  15. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    OK, that's getting close to what I want. It's still kind of modest in size (smaller than the Dardanelles Gun) but usable for the mod with some modification. Would you mind posting the art resource for this? (Or if you don't want to do that, a link to the mod?)

    There's something fishy with the "base" - it looks like it has 4 wheels but is sitting in a cart with 2 bigger wheels. Am I seeing that right? Does it come out of the cart to "set up"? The elephants are kind of a problem for the mod, since they are special resource units. Oxen would be more fitting - however, adding 60 oxen just isn't going to work graphically, and adding 2 will make it look pathetic, so I think it is better represented without any hauling animals at all (they just get in the way of seeing the central unit anyway). What I'd prefer is no animals, a larger crew, and the central bombard unit maybe ~50% bigger (so it occupies a good part of a tile with crew proportional to troops in the mod).


    For regular Bombarde, I found Wolfdog's which will work perfectly. Does anyone know if there is a cannon unit already somewhere with a matching crew?


    Wolfdog also has a Volly Gun. It's not suitable as a city siege unit, but maybe it could be short ranged anti-troop unit available at Machinery? (I guess in real life these were pretty useless, but it could be an early steampunk unit before all the over-the-top airship/landship units.)
     
  16. bouncymischa

    bouncymischa Synthetic Genie

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    The art is from Pouakai's Mughals mod -- you can get it as part of the India Civilization pack here. Regrettably, I'm not good enough with Blender to be able to do unit graphics (although I've been able to convert several improvements from Civ 4), so I can't really offer much in terms of improving it, but I figured it could be at least potentially useful.

    I suspect that the elephants can be removed easily enough -- I haven't looked at the actual code yet, but it's likely that the cannon and the elephants are seperate models. The big question is how the crew is added to the unit, but from what I recall of working with standard cannon graphics, the "cannon + crew" is a single model. Still, someone more skilled with Blender than I could probably add extra crew members to the model, and make the central cannon larger.

    I'm not entirely certain what the deal is with the wheels on the cart -- I suspect that the four smaller "wheels" are actually just decoration upon the cart itself. I know that, in-game, the Farsakh cannon has the limitation "can only be moved when fully healthy", likely to represent its size, but I suspect it isn't removed from the cart to be set up.
     
  17. Civitar

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    Not sure how interested you are Paz, but I'm almost ready to release a new bunch of Skeletons, since the Swordsmen really weren't working. I'd suggest you use the unarmed ones in this mod, while the others will likely get into PawelS' mod (whatever it is - he mentioned needing Skeletons).
     
  18. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    What was wrong with the skeleton swordsmen? I think I reduced texture size from your original. But they looked fine to me (at the scale they are, maybe I don't see the problem...?).

    But I always have my eye on the units thread. Even something not on my list could go in if it's really good.
     
  19. Civitar

    Civitar Adventurer

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    You still have the old version with the wooden shield right? In which case the rigging is horrid (watch them get in a fight - as soon as one of them dies his sword handle stays stuck to his hand while the blade flies off as if he dropped it, same with the shield, so that there are wonky lines of varying thickness all over the place - the same thing happens with the IdleB animation since it involves the sword not being in the skeleton's hand). I cheated a bit, I overwrote the skeleton in the Media Pack with my new version (not uploaded) which has better rigging and a fancy new shield texture, but still has the sword floating in midair when the weapon is slung over his "back". A weaponless skeleton will have no such issues. And I saw in your PM that you could use the other skeleton units that are coming...
     
  20. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    I figured out how to change the embarked graphic. So now I'm looking at ship graphics to see what's available.

    • DLC Danish Longboat: I think I will swap this with the mod's Bireme unit (which is currently using Trireme graphic as placeholder), available at sailing with no resource req. Maybe it should also be the starting embarked unit?
    • Wolfdog's Carrack: this is good because I have a Carrack unit in mod that also uses Trireme graphic as placeholder right now. Maybe this should be embarked graphic after Navigation?
    • Wolfdog's Ironclad is also better than base, so maybe I'll use it.
    Are there any others I should be aware of?

    I know it's not ideal having embarked units use the same graphic as war ships, but there are so very few preindustrial ships to use. Strangely, I have not been able to find the base Civ5 embarked ship graphic (whatever it is). I don't understand why the mod uses a modern ship, since the mod stays in ancient era forever. It may be because there isn't an ancient embarked unit. Anyway, I just discovered that there was a Lua function to override embarked graphic so I can override it now (even if I can't find the base early embarked graphic).

    I can add/update graphics without breaking gamesaves, so these can go in v7 version.
     

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