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Éa, The Ageless and the Divine (phase 2, alpha)

Discussion in 'Éa Fantasy Mod Project' started by Pazyryk, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    It has to do with persistent settings (options, player number, advanced settings, etc) carried over from previous games or other mods. This info is saved at the end of config.ini (the "[UserSettings]" section) and in files in the cache and ModUserData folders. I'm trying to make the mod fully resistant to this sort of thing in v13. So with v13 you will no longer have to mess around with config.ini and deleting folders to avoid savegame corruption.

    The good news is that this effort has allowed me to re-enable Advanced Settings for the mod. Even better, all of the settings are persisted specifically for the mod. So if you always play Éa at King difficulty on PerfectWorld3 map with 10 City States and all Sidhe opponents, then those settings will be there the next time you load the mod (and it won't affect settings for non-modded games or other mods).
     
  2. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Éa II, v13 available from the OP (will break saves)

    The mod now handles its own persistent settings (options, civ selection, advanced settings, etc.). The main purpose was to try to squash a nasty gamesave corruption related to persisted settings from previous games or possibly other mods. But there were several good side effects:
    1. You can now use Advanced Settings (I don't promise that all options are safe or balanced)
    2. The mod will save your settings
    3. There now should be no need to delete the cache or ModUserData folders or edit the end of the config.ini (I'll change post#2 to reflect this)
    It's tough to pin down all possible problems related to persistent settings. If you do see a problem with gamesaves being corrupted (i.e., crashing when you load) then please post 4 things for me immediately before you try anything else!:
    1. gamesave (the one that crashed on load)
    2. Lua.log
    3. config.ini
    4. ModUserData folder (zip or rar it all together)


    Changelog:
    • Advanced Settings overhauled and re-enabled; I don't know if all options are safe to use, but I have removed the ones that I know would be fatal for the mod
    • Settings are persisted for the mod. Data is saved separate from settings for non-Éa games so should not affect or be affected by your other games.
    • Solved savegame corruption (I think) coming from other game persisted settings at the end of config.ini and in the cache and ModUserData folders. You should no longer need to delete these.
    • Reformatted the Game Settings layout: uses mod-specific image and no more references to Caesar or Hiawatha
    • City State race now indicated in popup
    • Mouseover help text now works for city state traits
    • Fixed bug preventing Mana/Divine Favor gain from city states
    • Fixed some code causing too many GPs
    • You now accumulate Divine Favor when you open Theism before you have the Azzandarayasna religion. If you gain some other religion, this will revert back to Mana.
    • If your civ switches between Mana and Divine Favor usage, the previously accumulated amount is no longer available. The value is saved, however, so if you switch back you get what you previously had.
    • Mouseover help text now works for Top Panel culture, mana/divine favor, and great people sections. There is a ton of mod-specific information there (note: mana/divine favor won't appear until you have some or are generating some).
    • Added GP unit flag icons from Lplate.
     
  3. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I made a few comments on early design discussions for this, but haven't ever gotten around to trying the actual mod. It looks like a huge amount of progress has been made, and that the overall design remains innovative and ambitious.

    So I thought it's about time to take a look.

    Can I ask:
    1. What kinds of suggestions/feedback are you looking for at the moment?
    First impressions, overall gameplay, AI performance, balance, bug-hunting?
    2. What settings do you recommend that the game works well at? Map type, size, number of players, difficulty level.
     
  4. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Any comments at all, from specific bugs/balance issues to overall design.

    You'll figure out the stage of development after you play a bit. I'd say the big issues are:
    1. Poor or non-existing UI related to the civ naming conditions (and a couple don't do anything)
    2. Missing help text here and there, and pedia is mostly useless
    3. No Victory Conditions
    4. Not enough interesting spells which makes Mana and Divine Favor somewhat pointless
    5. Needs Art! (Icons and new fantasy units)
    #1 & 2 are the main things I'm focusing on for the remainder of phase 2. #3 & 4 will be the main focus of phase 3 of development (at the end of which we will have a "beta"). So really we only have an early to mid-game right now. You can accumulate mana or gold or power or whatever, but there isn't much to do with it until we get well into Phase 3.


    I've been designing for Standard speed and map size. A few mechanisms have adjustments for different settings, but many don't (only because I haven't gotten to that yet).
     
  5. 400cats

    400cats Chieftain

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    I've been reading a lot of the graphic/icon tutorials in the modding forum, and I wound up creating a couple of religion icons for the Weave of Ea. The icon for the Weave of Ea is a celtic-knot style thing, and the icon for the Cult of Pure Waters is just the icon for the Weave of Ea with a water droplet overlaid over it. My idea was to make the Weave of Ea icon function as a background for all the cults that arise from it, so that its clear that all of the cults are a part of the Weave of Ea, but they specialize in which gods/parts of nature they pay homage to.

    I put the icons in .dds format. The entire space used in the icons is 256x256, but the actual icons don't take up that entire area. I attached .png versions as well so that you can see them without opening them in GIMP, etc, but I had a screw-up with the PureWaters.png and accidentally left it in alpha channel (so the icon is white, and the background is transparent). I'm pretty inexperienced with graphic programs (I only just today learned what an alpha channel is), but I'm going to try to make some more icons when I can and keep learning how to format them correctly.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    @400cats. Looks good. And great to see someone interested in this again. Can I ask whether the particular pattern has any specific origin?

    I like your idea to overlay the Cults onto the Weave's icon. This shows the relationship, and maybe cuts down the art work since there will be many (mostly rare) cults on any one map.

    I went digging back through posts to find the work that Bob Morane had done in January. I was too stupid to figure out how to make/edit an atlas at the time so they never got in:


    This one is really excellent and perfect for Azzandarayasna. I might try to "age" it a little. I'm trying to get away from the Civ5 bright & shiny look.



    I don't have a strong preference for this one versus 400cats above. The problem with Bob Morane's here is that it doesn't shrink well (looks kind of like a shamrock when tiny) and would be too busy to use as background for cults. The color here is pretty good. It needs to contrast well against the Azzandarayasna fire pot and the Ahriman colors below.


    For Aŋra, the basic symbol and colors are from the peacock. For inspiration:

    Problem is that this is a real religious image, which makes me a little uncomfortable (well, so is the fire pot, but Aŋra is really evil). It's also too busy. But a somewhat altered and simplified version would work.



    Bob Morane also posted a nice spell icon. We could have several 8x8 atlas with these empty scrolls as template.
     
  7. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I'll use this post for some impressions, adding thoughts inside spoiler tags one at a time so that I don't spam your thread with rambling comments. [So further comments I'll edit into this post]

    1.
    Spoiler :

    I've spent most of my Civ5 time playing Thalassicus's VEM and GEM mods, so a lot of the features of those mods that aren't in vanilla show up. For example": barbarian village reveal and map reveal from ancient ruins are lame, and could be removed.

    There are some issues with start positions. A Sidhe player near me started on plains near wheat - but they don't have agriculture, so they can't farm the wheat, so they're pretty screwed.
    I started with a ton of forest around. I would have been in trouble if I hadn't gone pantheist.
    Mass forest everywhere really slows movement down a lot.
    It feels like tech and policy choices are really forced hard by your nearby resources. This isn't a gentle nudge, it is a "if you don't get these techs and policies you're screwed".

    I've spent most of my Civ5 time playing Thalassicus's VEM and GEM mods, so a lot of the features of those mods that aren't in vanilla show up. For example": barbarian village reveal and map reveal from ancient ruins are lame, and could be removed.

    The mod runs very slowly in terms of runtime. Even in the early game, turns are taking forever to process. Maybe its something in the forest expansion script, or in the extra AI. In any case I suspect it will become unplayable by lategame except on monster machines.

    Loading a game from within a game didn't load correctly, the unit box was gone and many names were gone. You may want to disable load game from within the game, and force people to quit to main menu to load.

    There is a lot of UI missing. Obviously some things are placeholders for now, but it needs to be much clearer how great people work: what generates them, what they're for.
    What bonuses do I get from some particular action. How do I use warriors. etc.

    It's not clear what triggered getting a particular name, nor what abilities that name gives. This needs to be more obvious.

    UI issue: in the diplomacy menu, other civs still have vanilla names (Augustus Caesar, etc.).

    Barbarians are a pain to deal with. Its annoying enough for me, but I suspect it could really mess up the AI.

    The game is very slow. There are a lot of turns spent pressing "end turn". But ~90 turns in I only have 2 cities and 3 units, and only just about to get a unit that isn't a warrior or scout.

    Do walls really need a maintenance cost? 0 maintenance in vanilla and VEM/GEM was a good design decision, it makes them not a drain in non border cities.

    Gold is very scarce and things are very expensive. I think I can afford to buy one thing all game so far.


    2.
    Spoiler :

    It's really unclear how you found a religion. I have the pantheistic religion from the policy tree, but I don't see how I get the cults. It looks like through a druid ability? But its unclear when those abilities are available. The text on the cult of leaves one is very ambiguous, and the others are blank.

    Given how strong the need to match your tech to the nearby resources is, does the AI understand this for tech selection?

    Should there be a high end pantheism policy or something that lets you use the Iroquois ability where forests within your borders count as roads?


    3.
    Spoiler :

    The knowledge penalty system feels a bit arbitrary and frustrating. I get severely punished if I want to pick up even a cheap early game tech not in my specific focus.
    I get screwed if my nearby resources/luxuries are on different parts of the tech trees - for example, to get calendar for plantations requires 2 techs if I'm Sidhe, which will severely hurt me if I have a forest start that pushes me into pantheism. But without them I may not be able to get any of my local luxuries. And many plantation luxuries are located on forest tiles, so this is quite a common occurrence.

    Could knowledge maintenance penalty be made fixed X per turn for each tech (with lower X for cheaper techs) rather than % proportional? That way you can still get a few out-of-path techs in the first couple of tiers to get your local resources working without being severely penalized. And you don't get to a point where your research gets severely choked off no matter how high your beaker income.

    Maybe I'll get used to it with more play, but newcomers to the mod may well be confused by the mechanic, and then frustrated once they understand it. I haven't reached a third stage yet.

    The military tree seems severely underpowered as compared to say the agrarianism or pantheism trees (I haven't really looked at the others too much yet).

    Just from the manual: the cult of epona confuses me. It's founding condition is to have a lot of flat land without forest or marsh, but the main benefit from pantheism is to not be punished by forest or marsh. This seems like weird synergy.

    The gods as city states seem cool, but it just doesn't seem like there is enough gold to actually spend on them.
    Should gifting the pantheist gods cost mana rather than gold?


    4.
    Spoiler :

    It's hard to develop new cities with pantheism, since the main food sources require a hunter that has to be constructed locally rather than being able to build farms with workers that were constructed in other cities.

    The racial differences aren't clear to me. Do Sidhe need more food to grow a pop? Have more expensive settlers?

    Why no farms on non-freshwater plains? It seems like potentially a plains start is going to mess you up.


    5.
    Spoiler :
    Melee ships seem a bit pointless. When most civs won't be bothering to use the oceans at all or embarking units or even working water tiles (a waste of techs unless you're really focusing on a nautical civ), there is no real need for civs to build cities on the coast or ships of their own, so a melee ship really has very little to do. Anti-ship and anti-coastal city is just a very narrow role. Ranged ships at least can bombard land units.
    Is there any way that melee ships could get something extra? A way of pillaging land tiles on the coast, perhaps?
     
  8. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Here's what I've got for the two theistic religions. The first was done by Bob Morane a while back. The second is my own (minor) modification of the image above. These are the actual sizes that will appear in game, the bigger one in the diplo relations screen and the smaller on the city banner.



    OK, maybe you can't really tell what's in the second one when looking at a city banner. But does that matter? The color and shape are distinct so there is no confusion about what religion the city has.


    Here's the full size images:
    Spoiler :



    Edit: Having too much fun with Gimp now. How's this for the Weave? A cult would just overlay something over this like a tree or horse head or bunch of grapes. It actually looks better on a background that isn't so greyish...if you click the thumbnail below you see it on a black background (which is how they will appear in the diplo screen).



    Full size:
    Spoiler :


    Sorry 400cats for jumping you on something you just made. I finally got the the hang of some tricks in Gimp and couldn't quit...
     
  9. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    @Ahriman,

    I'll check back on your post to see if it grows (give it a few hours before you start responding to my responses).

    Keep in mind that some of what I say below is "theoretical" or "the way it is supposed to be". I've been adding mechanisms throughout phase 2 (the last 6 months) and I've probably only put 5% effort on balance so far. That will shift to a much higher value in phase 3.

    Note that other players have reported massive surplus of gold.

    Let me try to explain the design concept, anyway. One of the complaints in Civ5 is that it doesn't matter much what you do. The game just kind of roles on regardless of what you build or do. You couldn't stop getting gold and research if you tried. OK, that's maybe a little unfair: it does matter what you do but the effects are kind of subtle and down the road. A different issue that bothers me personally is that geography doesn't matter much. Well, other than deserts and mountains anyway. All cities just kind of grow slowly forever.

    So we can plot Civ5 on two axes:

    <--*------------------> "What you do matters"
    <--*------------------> "Geography matters"

    Éa is probably something like this right now:

    <-------------------*-> "What you do matters"
    <-------------------*-> "Geography matters"

    It's perhaps too far to the right on both of those scales and I need to back off some. The first scale makes the mod unfriendly to new players. The second one makes balance very tricky (and I haven't spent nearly enough time on that yet). But I have strong desire to be well to the right of base Civ5 on both of those scales.


    That wasn't your only option. You could have gone for Bronze Working and chopped to build infrastructure, expand rapidly, and/or field a massive early military rush. Even without doing this, any civ can Slash/Burn to make the land more hospitable, though there is no production from this. (It's true that if it were jungle your options would have been much more restricted.)

    Good! You're clearly not playing with a gold focus. If you were, then you would be buying stuff left and right with gold left over to hire an army of mercenaries and buy off city states and gods. You are playing some other focus, I guess (or probably no focus since you are new to the game) so those options aren't available to you. That is how it is supposed to work.

    Help texts are clearly needed everywhere. That's just the stage of the mod now. Although I've already added many pages of texts, probably 50% of what is needed is still missing. In some defense, it's a pain in the arse to add these and then change them constantly. So I tend to add the help for something after the mechanism has settled down a little. Meanwhile I keep track of everything in a giant game manual that is perhaps 90% accurate.

    I was wondering when someone would note this. There's a massive amount of code running, particularly for AI. There is some room for code optimization. For one thing, the mod is writing literally MBs of information to the Lua.log while I develop the mod and its AI.

    I know it seems counter-intuitive, but mod processing time goes down as the game progresses. There's much less thinking/planning on the AIs part about resources and optimizing tech/policy progression to match geography. The mod does very little processing related to units, and not much from extra cities, and these are the two things that are growing in late game causing the core game engine to slow.

    Follow instruction #5 in this post. (I hate asking players to fiddle around with settings, but it is still necessary.)

    I want a game where the player has to build some military, even if they plan to play a peaceful game. In FFH (or really Wildmana with Sephi's great AI) my old start build was something like worker, warrior, monument, warrior, warrior, warrior, something else. Picking up a Tier 2 military tech early could relieve the need for warriors somewhat. I know that's different than base, where it is possible to never build any military units at Emperer and below (there was some diplo risk to this but not nearly strong enough in my opinion).

    On AI: what you say is currently true but that can be fixed.

    Note that there is a geographical trade-off here that I like. You could forgo much or all military production if you have an isolated (or less wide-open) start. But then you have the disadvantage of less land/resources to contend with and less civ/CS contacts for trade/CSboneses, so you need that early advantage to compensate.

    This is (as predicted >1 yr ago) one of the most difficult things to get right. Players expect to advance indefinitely (irrespective of what they do) as they do in base Civ5. It's extremely frustrating when that doesn't happen (even though it doesn't seem to bother anyone that policies stop advancing in base if you aren't playing a very culturally focused game). With no tech focus, you are going to approach maybe 10 or so techs max. A "medium" focus might get you twice that number. Even a pure research focus has limits (I'm not quite sure what those are now). That's the immutable design goal. How to get there in the least frustrating way is something I am willing to think about.

    Just some specific gameplay suggestions related to the mechanic:
    • Make up your mind early how much focus you plan to put on techs vs other areas of game play.
    • If it's very high focus, you need to do everything you can to gain +% research bonuses (since that directly counters KM in each city). This includes specific techs, policies and buildings. Tomes also do this for specific tech branches.
    • If you are going for a medium or low tech focus, you still need to plan your tech progression very carefully but in a different way. You can get to Beast Breading (with it "boss" military unit) without ever learning Writing. Just don't get unfocused. Seriously, you don't need libraries. And you don't need to develop every resource in your empire. (But of course, you need to develop a good number of them. So AssignStartingPlots.lua does have a great deal of influence. But most starts give you some flexibility at least after the fist couple techs.)

    I'm not sure if the balance is correct yet, but the idea is that you can go for an extreme military focus and more or less forget about gold or research. Just beeline a Teir 3 military tech and go for it. I'm not sure if anyone has tried this yet. (Military conquest still needs a lot of balance attention. We'll do a lot of that in phase 3.)

    No, gold is the proper tribute. There is also a "Major Spirits' Tribute" Process that becomes available from a pantheistic policy (Mana Vortexes iirc) letting you convert production to influence. Otherwise you have quests (which do need work).

    Here are points I agree 100% with so need no comment (except that I am working on it):

     
  10. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    I have a fairly heavy production focus and am Sidhe/pantheistic, so I can see that a Man/agrarian might have a lot more gold.
    But even then, I suspect the gold : production ratios might be a bit too high (~3 gold to buy 1 production?).

    I can appreciate the goal of what you're trying to do, and I similarly feel that there is not enough geographic determinism in vanilla Civ5.
    But my initial experience with Ea (which might change once I understand better what is happening) is that you are very much pushed into particular tech choices (eg: I had salt and stone nearby and almost nothing else, so any choice other than mining and masonry would have been terrible; I had lots of forests and they grew fast, so anything other than pantheism would have been pretty terrible).
    I think you want some middle ground where geography matters, but where there are still meaningful choices. One way to do this might be to relax the research penalties for the first couple of tech tiers, so that you can get agriculture to farm your wheat without being pushed into a agrarianism game. That way, you can get the early game tech to meet your immediate needs, but you can still play the overall style you want, and expand into terrain which supports that.

    A few of the texts that are there aren't clear. For example the fellowship of leaves ritual says something about unimproved forest percentages, but it is quite confusing. [Also, does a road on a forest count as unimproved?]

    In any case, bravo once again for all of what you've accomplished so far, and for a mod that is interestingly different to vanilla and isn't just FFH for Civ5.

    * * *
    Extra added to extra above:
    Maybe I could have, since I had salt so had to get mining anyway. But if I had some resource other than salt, I 'm not sure if I could do this, since I wouldn't have the food to grow at any decent rate underneath the forest cover or to build a new city. Maybe if I'd built more workers to keep chopping, I guess.

    I did. The box appears in normal play, but not if I load a game from within the mod. If I exit to main menu and reload, then it works fine again.
    The mod seems very stable btw, nice work, no fatal crashes yet.

    But militarism doesn't really help your military all that much, and it seems that you will do a better job fielding a more powerful military by focusing on economy boosts - and some of the economy boosts from policies are quite large!
    I dunno, I haven't gone on a city state conquering rampage yet, maybe that will change my mind.
    A question: will conquering on-map city states make the pantheistic god city states mad with me? Or will they not care? [Hopefully the latter.]

    Ok, maybe its just that I haven't yet found anything that makes mana seem like a valuable yield.

    Can I ask: why the total focus on just number of techs? It would be easy to design a system that forced some specialization and made it really hard to get into the tier 3+ stage of more than a couple of techs without punishing you so severely for getting some diversity in the tier1 techs.

    Also: I think part of the problem is the discontinuity in terms of the impact on number of turns per tech. Ideally you want something so that the tech pacing feels roughly similar over time (though its ok for it to be slower in the early game, faster in the midgame, and slower in the late game). A big part of the potential annoyance is that the proportional penalty keeps increasing over time: absent other modifiers going from 9 techs to 10 will halve my remaining research income, and so will double the number of turns per tech.
    What I suggest you do is benchmark scientific income over time: get some feeling for standard income per turn at turns 10, 20, 30,...,100, 110, 120,...200,210, across different strategies etc.
    Decide how many turns you think a game should last.
    Then come up with a modifying mechanic that is slightly smoother than the proportional penalty.

    The manual is good, but there are still features that aren't explained very well, like religion, magic, races, leaders, and so forth. These are explained in lore terms, but not so much in game terms.
    eg I would have thought my cities would count for founding the cult of leaves, but the option is greyed out on my druid. What counts as city radius - just within culture borders, or outside culture too 3 tiles in all directions? What counts as unimproved - does a road mean improved?

    In any case, these are all just first impressions, I have to mess around more before I can start to really "understand" the whole mod and how everything fits together. And as you say, balancing can be done later.
    Some of the knowledge/tech issues might reduce once the actual victory conditions are in; at the moment there is nothing to do but grow, so the frustration factor is more likely to set in.
     
  11. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Expanded my post above. Long-winded response to your long-winded post. Good to see you back on the Éa forum (I even named a god after you...).
     
  12. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    More responses added, to keep things in order.

    Just stole from the same root source ;)
     
  13. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Looks like the patch to vanilla Civ5 has broken the mod for now?
     
  14. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Ha! Are the BNW patches starting to fall out of the sky now? If so, I can guarantee that the mod will be broken. Can't say how long until modders get in and see what the damage is.
     
  15. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

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    Meanwhile...


    I finished formatting the first 4 religion icons. I have to do the rest of the cults, but the first one below should give you an idea how they will look. For those not up on Éa lore, these are (respectively) Azzandarayasna, A&#331;ra, The Weave of Éa, and Cult of Bakkheia (cults are all part of The Weave).


    This is how they will appear on the first tab in Religion Overview:



    This is how they will appear in the other religion tabs and in the Diplo List screen (maybe other places):



    This is how they will appear in the city banner:



    And...



    Yes! We have Holy Cities! (The Weave has no holy city, of course.)

    Thanks to Bob Morane again for the first one.
     

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  16. Ahriman

    Ahriman Tyrant

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    Yup:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=499668

    The icons in most of the posts work for me, but the ones in the last post don't display.
    *edit* Now they do.
     
  17. 400cats

    400cats Chieftain

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    That seems like a pretty solid strategy in general. I'll have to try it out; I tend to go towards more peaceful games with an Infantry line for defense, and I need to branch out.

    I've been working on a strategy revolving around being Human Ys for a while. It doesn't work on Immortal or above because the Sidhe AI is too fast in claiming Ys. but it should work on certain map settings in lower levels. It might also be good for the AI.

    To pull it off, your starting area should ideally have 2 food resources and 1 production resource, or possibly vice versa. A river is also good for the future.
    -Start by selecting Writing as your free tech and research Philosophy.
    -Immediately begin a library.
    -Send your warrior around in a circle to explore and get goody huts, but don't stray too far from your capital. You'll be low on military at the beginning, and barbs are dangerous.
    -Prioritize food areas first, then production. If you have a fast start, you should finish the library around turn 24 and come into a huge tech bonus. Woo!
    -If you're in an isolated, safe place, you can probably build a worker or whatever. If not, build a warrior.
    -Depending on your start, you've got a lot of options. If you feel you can risk it, put a citizen on Sage duty so that you can score a Great Sage early. You want to start the Tome of Tomes as fast as possible, because the AI love to beeline to it.
    -Meanwhile, tech choice is up to you. I recommend getting access to food improvements as quickly as possible to take advantage of your science bonus. You can also rush a military tech line and get tier 3 units pretty fast.
    -Policies are up to you. I like to go Tradition opener, Agrarianism opener, then another Tradition policy so that I have more research/culture and the opportunity to build super-farms.

    Now, time for random thoughts:
    -An idea for Aldebar:
    Aldebar (M, S; Calendar) Aldebaran; citizens assigned to Plantation tiles consume no food / +3f from Plantations
    I noticed that even when you have plantations, you sometimes can't afford to put citizens on them unless you have a couple of strong food resources around them. If you beeline Calendar, a bonus to help you put citizens on plantations would be nice.
    -An idea for Slavery:
    It would be really cool (though potentially micro-intensive and stupidly unbalanced) if having a slave on a tile gave that tile some sort of bonus, to signify that you have slaves working the land there. So, if you had a citizen working a mine for 2p, and you moved a slave onto it, the yield would change to say, 3p, as long as the slave remained parked on it. Slaves would basically function as moveable improvements. This ability could come really late in the Policy Tree to make it hard to get.
    -The Axagoria 50% excess happiness to research bonus is awesome (I got it on a failed attempt to be Ys), but I have no idea how it functions. I would periodically check the research meter for the split between research from cities and excess happiness, and the results were bizarre. Sometimes I'd have 5 happiness and 4.2ish extra research. Sometimes I'd have 10 happiness and 3.5ish extra research. I suspect knowledge maintenance and Tome bonuses apply to this, but it still confused me.
    -The UI looks a lot better now. The info you get from hovering over the culture and GP bars at the top of the screen is great.
     
  18. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,584
    Mod's definitely broken with the new patch. That was 100% predictable. The patch contains >6 months of code update related to bad stuff they discovered and fixed while making BNW.

    v14 will be updated for the patch.
     
  19. Calavente

    Calavente Richard's voice

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,786
    Location:
    France
    nice.
    however, for cults, I would "flatten" the overlayered drawings :
    grapes...etc should be "simplified".
    maybe with a drop of water it will be ok, but IMO they are not easily recognizable especially when superposed on the intricated weave of Ea banner.
     
  20. Pazyryk

    Pazyryk Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    Messages:
    3,584
    I agree the grapes are hard to make out in the city banner icon.

    One idea that's got my interest today is using old runes for the cult symbols. These are really letters, but each has a name and "meaning". So you have:

    &#5850; - lake/water (Cult of Pure Waters)
    &#5846; - horse (Cult of Epona)
    &#5831; - yew, also associated with the world tree Yggdrasil (Cult of Leaves)
    &#5817; - joy (Cult of Bakkhiea?)

    (If you can't see those, you're using a lame-ass browser. Try Firefox. Or view at Wiki: Runes.)

    No single rune for ocean or sea, but I could substitute one with a more indirect connection.

    The meanings are less obvious than, say, a bunch of grapes or a horse head. But they would be easy to see and distinguish. Players would learn them after they mouse-over the horse rune a few times and always see "Cult of Epona". It would fit well with the mod's style of going back to old (and unaltered as much as possible) sources.
     

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