Éa, The Ageless and the Divine (phase 2, alpha)

[Pazyryk]

@Bastian-Bux, do you have the Lua.log from that game?

@LDiCesare, oops! forgot to mention that. I added it to the THINGS TO DO TO MAKE IT WORK section and I'll add it to the OP in a bit (I don't think I can edit post title).

@Bandersnatching, sounds like you ran through each of the bugs fixed in the hotfixes. Make sure you have hotfix e. Also, your crash sounds like issue #6 in the THINGS TO DO TO MAKE IT WORK section. Let me know if you are getting reload crashes after doing #6.

The barbs, by the way, aren't altered, though the increased number is intentional. The way I did it was to simply lower the number of city states (more spawn and they are more likely to target you). IIRC they attack cities at higher difficulty (Emperor?) though it is never effective in my experience (barb warriors are kind of weak). Actually, I was thinking about removing the xp cap but also removing their strength penalty so they were on par with non-barb units.

 

[Bastian-Bux]

Here you go.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

Played Sidhe/Pantheism to turn 225 running with hotfix e. No crashes or obvious issue and the Lua.log shows nothing on a search for "!!!!".

Potential issues...

Spoiler :

• Many times I received warnings that a great person could not make progress due to a shortfall in production. This info was from the mouse over of the popup... the popup itself just showed "-1". I wasn't able to build the Tome of Forms and suspect this was the issue. At the time, I had two great sages working on different tomes in the same city.
• I was given the option to build Stânhencg multiple times
• I was given the option to build the National Treasury multiple times
• The plot graphic for one of my cities 'disappeared'

Observations...

Spoiler :

One of Pantheism's greatest advantages is not needing workers or built improvements. I was able to get my first policy early by building a monument. After that, all of my resources were 'auto-improved' as soon as I owned the plot (no access to the resource until I had the right tech but access to the yield improvement is immediate). I ignored barbarians, who couldn't pillage anything, and used city defenses to wear them down while my lone warrior took out barbarian forts one after another. Each new city skyrockets with multiple, instant high yield plots and I spend most of my $$ extending my borders to rapidly pull in resources.

In my non-Pantheistic games, I'm generally running with several warriors on worker/improvement patrol as well as several workers to keep up with jungle while improving plots, and need to build workboats to take advantage of sea resources. The additonal priorities and drain on resources slows me down... though perhaps a more skilled, more 'micro' player would be impacted less.

A few options to consider...

• Only give the upgraded yields from the wildland improvements after the approrpriate tech to access the resource has been learned.
• Reduce the initial benefits of the wildland improvements but have them increase more with time (targeting the same cap)

I don't recall if it is already listed in one of the design discussions... but it would also be 'flavorful' to not need to build roads to connect cities for the Pantheists (I ended up building one road from a land-locked capital to a city with a harbor... all the rest of my cities were on the coast, love those auto-improved fish!!). Perhaps as a late policy branch benefit.

I uploaded the save file. I restarted Civ5 and loaded a saved game to check something... and didn't save the Lua.log prior, so have lost it...

I'll take another run at Agrarian to see if I can achieve a similar status by turn 200.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

A potentially complicated one to code around, would neccessitate capturing the initial state or creating a duplicate set of 'overgrown' improvements...

1. A barbarian pillaged my farm
2. I moved a worked in to repair it (after dispatching the barb...)
3. Living land grew a forest on the plot, interupting the repair
4. I slash/burned the forest while the graphic underneath showed the pillaged farm
5. When the forest was removed... perfectly good farm, no repair neccessary.

 

[Sezneg]

One thing I'd like to bring up is early game pacing, and the balance between agrarian/pantheism.

Right now, it's very hard to produce hammers. You're more or less forced to work every food resource you can, and this causes some real long production times. Those workers that agrarian civs need are a real drain.

I think this could be aided by scaling the early game stuff to a bit lower hammer cost; early game hammers are just VERY scarce. To the point that I would starve a few turns to work a 4 hammer tile just to get something produced.

 

[Pazyryk]

Here's a potential adjustment to production. It should give 1p per population point in all cities.

Unzip the attached file and use it to replace Buildings.sql in the CoreTables folder. Keep the old one in case I made a mistake. If someone tells me it works (and doesn't crash the game) I'll make it into a hotfix.

Edit: Risk now is that you will run out of things to build. But I can fix that with more stuff.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

Quick check, see +1 pop from population for man...

Spoiler :

 

[Pazyryk]

Hotfix f posted.

Adds +1p per citizen. That'll be a boost for everyone but especially those playing a high-growth agrarian strategy. (Will likely introduce the problem of not enough things to build. We'll just have to see.)

 

[Severon_Rathe]

Hotfix f posted.

Adds +1p per citizen. That'll be a boost for everyone but especially those playing a high-growth agrarian strategy. (Will likely introduce the problem of not enough things to build. We'll just have to see.)

I tend to agree that this will 'hurry up' the game. Right now, you can't build everything.. and have to make choices on which things to build. I'd rather address the relative balancing challenges by slowing down the Pantheists, at least in the early game (see post above on some thoughts) and slow down the living land challenge (your slash and burn for jungle at bronze should do the trick).

Another observation... there are a few points in the game when the economy is very challenging. I find myself building units to sell them for gold. This micro could be avoided with an equivalent 'hammers to gold' conversion out the gate. There are plenty of buildings available and the conversation rate would not have to be great (though should roughly equivalent to selling units).

 

[Pazyryk]

Another observation... there are a few points in the game when the economy is very challenging. I find myself building units to sell them for gold. This micro could be avoided with an equivalent 'hammers to gold' conversion out the gate. There are plenty of buildings available and the conversation rate would not have to be great (though should roughly equivalent to selling units).

Just posted Hotfix g to try to address this. Gives +1g per population point. I suspect that you would be swimming in gold if you focus on it, ...but my intention is that you can at least get by (i.e., support a modest army) without doing that.

I'm not fond of conversion processes in general, unless they are added as part of a restricted special mechanic that you have to earn. Slaves are an example since you can convert them to gold, production, population or military units, but you have to earn those abilities through policies.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

I suspect that you would be swimming in gold if you focus on it, ...but my intention is that you can at least get by (i.e., support a modest army) without doing that.

I've been struggling in the early game, particularly as non-Pantheistic, as I need to maintain min 2 workers and 2 warriors to improve/guard the capital and need to get a few buildings running for food. Once I'm able to expand to several cities, I'm generally swimming in gold...

Perhaps it is my limited understanding of the early economy? In any case, I'm concerned the +1/pop is too much past ~turn 100... you already get close to that from the market place.

Perhaps maintenance free on the first few units?

Also, a general comment... I'm loving these concepts and very hopeful you will be successful. I'm not able to contribute where you need it most (artwork) but will play test and bug stomp as much as possible. I'm travelling for ~10 days w/o only iPad + SplashTop access to civ, so may not be as much help then, but will jump back on when I get back!

 

[Severon_Rathe]

200 Turn Agrarian/Man on hotfix f

No issues with gold on this play through. I had a few spots early on where I hovered at break even and when I first started establishing trade routes, had the expected deficit but could handle it from savings.

I had a very nice starting position for the first ~100 years, with only one near-bye forest plot and no jungle; a ring of coast and desert protecting me from the living lands. Coupled with 3 elephants and a bee-line to mounted elephants, it was a pretty easy start. Now that I'm expanding rapidly into forested regions, I'm building up the army of workers to eliminate and hold off living land, but I can afford it. The only down side to this start is my first few cities don't have any opportunity to take advantage of a fully completed Agrarian policy tree.

The +1 prod per turn from 'f' feels justified; hammers continue to be precious and the backlog of buildings 100+ turns long, with the exception of my capital.

I haven't been able to get to a real war in any game, by turn 200. Not an issue as I generally prefer Epic play-throughs... but your standard feels pretty epic!

I'm going to try another run specifically targeting a more forested start (with rivers for agrarian farms) and see how well I can do.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

Tome of Form doesn't complete

Forget to mention... as in my last play-through, I'm not able to complete the Tome of Form. This time, the sage creating it is in their own city.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

Great person budget shortfall

Occurs consistently when I chop a forest...

Spoiler :

Edit:

Looks like there was a corruption at turn 159. I've added the save file and Lua.log.

View attachment AutoSave_0159 AD-0980.zip
View attachment Lua.zip

 

[Pazyryk]

Are you sure the production shortfall wasn't from a GP somewhere trying to build a Wonder? It's hard for me to imagine a worker triggering this mechanism.

Also, looks like you are running another UI mod (unless there is some option to display civs outside of the diplo list that I am no aware of). At best, this is going to show nonsensical info, as in your screenshot. Much more likely, it is going to cause multiple function crashes.

 

[erigoth]

perhaps i wasn't looking hard enough. but:

is there currently no way for units to Embark? or cross bodies of water?

 

[landlubber]

Also, looks like you are running another UI mod (unless there is some option to display civs outside of the diplo list that I am no aware of). At best, this is going to show nonsensical info, as in your screenshot. Much more likely, it is going to cause multiple function crashes.

No, that's just an option in the unmodded game. I use it too. I'll turn it off in the future.

 

[Severon_Rathe]

Are you sure the production shortfall wasn't from a GP somewhere trying to build a Wonder? It's hard for me to imagine a worker triggering this mechanism.

I specifically ensured no other GPs were building wonders, epics, etc... though several are resident.

No other mods loaded.... I've also been resetting per your instructions in between most games (deleting saves and the database file and lua.log).

 

[Pazyryk]

perhaps i wasn't looking hard enough. but:

is there currently no way for units to Embark? or cross bodies of water?

Works as far as I know. Should be able to embark with sailing and cross ocean (currently all ships) with astronomy.

No, that's just an option in the unmodded game. I use it too. I'll turn it off in the future.

My bad, then. Surprising I didn't know about that UI option. I'll fix that at the same time I fix the advanced diplo popup (should be in v 2).

I specifically ensured no other GPs were building wonders, epics, etc... though several are resident.

Were you getting that notification exactly when you clicked on the chop action? Or the next turn? And you didn't get it if you didn't chop?

Tome of Form doesn't complete

Forget to mention... as in my last play-through, I'm not able to complete the Tome of Form. This time, the sage creating it is in their own city.

Is the action shown but disabled? If so, was there any text in the mouse-over?

 

[Severon_Rathe]

perhaps i wasn't looking hard enough. but:

is there currently no way for units to Embark? or cross bodies of water?

Me too..!