See, the big problem, at least for me, is replayability. I never played Civ I, I started at Civ II. Picked it up as an impulse buy. But man, I loved it. I had friends and coworkers that got into it and we'd share our gameplay experiences over lunch or a beer. I played it so much I had to start forcing myself to go outside or go fishing or something. Civ III not so much, but still, it was Civ, and after patches and expansions it was ok....Civ IV? I took leave from work (army) just to play it. (I was in a very snowy environment...being able to spend a few snowed in days with hot tea and civ was pretty nice.) Civ V? As it is, no. If I could go back in time I'd stop myself from buying it. Sure, I'll kinda play it for awhile....but only if theres nothing else to do at the moment. Its not engaging and its not a lot of fun...its just a time sink. Its almost like a one night stand....you do it cuz its available but you feel bad after you shut the PC down. The patch made it even worse, IMO....I might reinstall Arcanum in place of civ...and that game is what....ten years old? Or just play RISK on Pogo games....at least that game was made to be constant war. theres little more than that to Civ V in its current state.