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[1.0.1.383] Can't enter CS territory

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Pep, Aug 16, 2011.

  1. Pep

    Pep King

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    In the image you can see I can't enter Stockholm territory because this CS is Angry with me. Bribing it to Normal doesn't grant access neither. You need to bribe it to Friends state to freely enter its lands.

    The CS is allied with Persia and I have no open borders with them. Anyway, I've made the test to bribe open borders with Persia and also I can't enter the CS tile.

    I've also attached the savegame.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Ranos

    Ranos King

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    I hope this isn't a bug. It always bothers me to see an AI civ wondering thru an allied CS's territory right after I ended a war with that civ.
     
  3. Mercade

    Mercade the Counsellor

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    You'd expect that one should be able to enter the area of a neutral CS without problems, even if they are allied with someone else.
     
  4. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    I think I see the point here; if they're unallied, they know there's not much they can do about it. If they're allied, they can bring in their friends if someone messes around.

    The problem with that logic is that the allied civ is probably more interested in the CS bonus than in protecting the CS's borders (the city itself is another matter).
     
  5. bcaiko

    bcaiko Emperor

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    Yeah, if this is not a bug, I'd like an explanation for when you can and can't enter a CityState's boundaries.
     
  6. draaibaar

    draaibaar Warlord

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    I've the same problem in my game. I was at war with Persia, Persia did have 5 allied City-states, a few of them I didn't have met before. After peace treaty I began to explore Persia and found two of those City-states (I did make peace with). I was not able to enter these City-states, I also couldn't see their City, only a few tiles, I could declare war on them if I wished, and only after giving them money to alley me I could enter there territory.
    My conclusion is that this problem occurred while I got at war with City-states I didn't have met before because these City-states were allied with Persia. While at war with them I didn't have a clue about there territory.
     
  7. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    You cannot enter an angry CS, until you either make war, or make peace. If you cannot make peace because of perma-band, then all you can do is make war. Attacking CS's and getting perma-banned is not a bug, but the result of attacking CS's. It is best not to attack another CS unless it is a request. Doing so without a request, will cause a perma-banned status with several CS, that you will never be able to make peace or ally with them the rest of the game. There is also a limit on how many "attack" request you do. If you do too many of them, it will also start to make the CS's suspicious. There is a related bug though. You will get a notification that they want help in fighting so and so who turns out to be YOU!


    If you are no longer at war with an AI, then you should be able to make peace with their ally CS. You cannot do anything while at war with the AI, however you should be able to move through their allied CS territory.
     
  8. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    You seem to have quite a different game from me, timtofly. I never have any problems entering CS territory. It doesn't matter whether they're angry or not.
    They're already angry when you spend one interturn in their territory, but you can stay there forever if you want, their angry status doesn't affect access.

    Although I don't know what happens if you declare on a CS yourself, I don't do that. All I know is I've seen CS's declare permanent wars against certain AI's who probably had been bad.

    Draaibaar, you can make peace with a CS as long as you've made peace with the civ that got them in the war. You won't see those CS's on the map, but their names pop up on the diplo screen as soon as they declare on you and you can click on their names to do diplomacy (although your options will of course be limited when still locked in war).
    I think you should've been able to enter these CS's territory after making peace with them. Even if a 'ban' caused by angry status could make sense, I don't think the game has that as a feature. With ordinary AI's you get a popup mesage when you can't enter their territory; 'Does this mean war? Or do you want open borders?'
    With CS's, if there was a ban of some sort, there should be some sort of popup message about that. Not being able to enter territory and not getting any message at all points to a bug. If it was a feature there would have been a message.

    Actually, now that I think about it, I had the same thing in a recent game. Some CS I hadn't yet met upon their decaration I made peace with a little later and still was not able to enter their territory. No message at all.
    I could probably reproduce this, as I made a save when I got declared on. If I dig it up and replay from there I'll probably get the same thing again.
    Message to developers: Are you interested in a save about this? I do have a few small mods running in my games, I don't know how big a problem that is.
     
  9. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Actually I think it is broke! In my last few games, Moving through a CS territory does not even make them angry.

    You are right, about never being "blocked out", it has been a while since I have tried to move through a CS that was -60 and just angry (not at war).
     
  10. chrin67

    chrin67 Empereur

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    I also encountered 3 or 4 times a similar problem with some CS I could not enter.
    As far as I know a CS territory should always be opened.

    As far as I remember there are some situations where stationing in a CS does not impact your influence, even if you're not a CS friend:

    a) there is a policy that forces your influence to 20+ (unless you're at war)

    b) if a CS asks for some help to fight barbarians, you may station a couple of turns (5 ?) on the CS territory without influence penalty
     
  11. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    Yup, you're correct about a) and b), chrin67. A CS doesn't need to issue a formal request against barbarians either, you're always allowed to be there if there are barbarians inside or on the borders of the CS.

    It gets strange when you are there fighting a non barbarian enemy of theirs, because then they get angry, eventhough you're helping them.

    And if you're Greek, you're always allowed to be there. You even heal at double rate when at war with them, which is an obvious bug and already reported, though not yet addressed.
     
  12. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

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    Thanks.

    I think that is my problem. The UA in the manual does not state that. I do now remember something about the Hellenic League, but that was ages ago.:(

    Would that also effect this: in my current game other CS are completing task for CS's a turn or more before I can do it. I have never really seen CS's take out that many barb camps on their own before. These camps are at least 5 tiles away from their borders. And the Caravels bombard all over the map new camps that spring up on the coast.
     
  13. Optional

    Optional Deity

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    CS caravels will bombard camps, yeah, always.

    I don't think I've seen their land units stray more than a couple of tiles from their own territory to take out a camp, but remember they can take over other CS's territory or AI towns as well, so if they have some units to spare they will send them out to target their enemies with. Luckily.
     
  14. draaibaar

    draaibaar Warlord

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    I've uploaded an image on which you can see that my knight can't enter the territory of Belgrade. You also can't see the City of Belgrade which is still clouded. Although my knight touches the border of Belgrade, The city itself doesn't appear on the map. The problem arises (as I mentioned before in my previous post) as Belgrade declares war on me as alley of Persia while I didn't met Belgrade yet.

    Sometimes you meet an caravel of an unmet City-state. Then you can see the City tile of that City-state on the map, often completely surrounded by clouds. I think this should also happen when an unmet City-state declares war on you.

     

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