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Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Kewlipo, Dec 28, 2018.

  1. Kewlipo

    Kewlipo Chieftain

    Jun 27, 2015
    I don't know if anyone else has found a solution to the Babylon problem, but I finally did.

    This one took me six tries (around nine if you count casual attempts beforehand) to figure out. I started to record different starts to min/max, and the final run I did something very surprising to succeed.

    Spoiler Some fun and frustrating attempts :

    I realized after the fifth attempt that simple research and Ishtar Gate + Oracle timing would not accomplish the goal alone, so I resorted to a different strategy. I did not think it would even work until I started approaching the end of the game, then I started taking screenshots. (Included in this imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/ieoEhny)

    I won't explain the images because they really come after the most difficult part, which is beating Greece to Mathematics and Writing.

    First I will explain my initial strategy. There are a few different things I had to consider:
    - Maximize use of tiles that have commerce, since that translates directly into research early.
    - Food production to time population growth
    - Production for wonders
    - Great Person points :shifty:

    That's the discovery I made! The UHV is barely possible if you pump out a Great Prophet! You can see my strategy from the picture I sent, but here is how I did it in more user-friendly terms:

    1) Settle on the spot at start, build a worker. I consistently tried waiting until there were two pops to build worker, but the strategy synergizes much better with a worker rush.
    2) Research Mythology + Leverage with first bonus tech. Build a pasture on the sheep with the worker. Build a Ziggurat. As soon as it is finished, make one pop a priest.
    3) Research Mining + Masonry. Flip to Slavery. Build a quarry on the marble.
    4) Research Tanning + Smelting. Build a quarry on the stone. Start building a granary. Make sure the two pops are working the sheep and marble always, as the two and three commerce respectively heavily outweigh the extra hammer on the stone.
    5) Research Sailing + Construction. Pause building the granary and instead build the Ishtar Gate. Build a mine with the worker. After the Ishtar Gate is done, with a few turns before Divination popped, I built a Militia just in case a barb chariot came at me.
    6) Research Divination. Around now, the Ishtar Gate should be finished and you should be building the Oracle. Start researching Property.
    7) Once the Ishtar gate is finished you should have about 4 pops. This is an extremely crucial point, so I recommend saving here in case you mess up. You need to make three (leave one working the marble tile) of your pops as specialists to get enough GP points. I didn't record exact numbers, but you need to place your specialists in a careful order to time the Oracle being built TWO turns before the Greek spawn (they spawn on turn 152 on Marathon) You need to have the three specialists working as a priest, scientist, and statesmen for around 4-5 turns until a GP will spawn on turn 150 if only two specialists are working. Then have two specialists (one returns to work the sheep) work as a scientist and priest until Property is ensured to bulb on turn 150. After that, place two specialists as priests. Finally, you may need to move your specialist working the sheep to the mine (both have two commerce) to ensure Oracle will pop on turn 151.
    8) You have to delay Oracle popping until after you research Property and the GP spawns, so continue building a granary if you finish early and have one turn left.
    9) Use the (hopefully Great Prophet, or you may have to restart) to bulb Ceremony and Calendar.
    10) Build the Oracle on turn 151. Discover Arithmetics and Writing.

    You did it! You beat the Greek spawn. From then on, you have to rush an Edubba, utilize a scientist specialist and focus on commerce to beat the Greeks to Contract. Afterwards, build military units and turtle.
    That should be it!

    Spoiler Let's go!!!!!!!!!!! :

    I am thinking about doing this run again with pictures to make a more comprehensive guide. Let me know if you have any questions on the strat. :crazyeye:
    Enyavar, Publicola, Jipsu and 2 others like this.
  2. Rodnok

    Rodnok Chieftain

    Jul 31, 2007
    Prague, Holy Roman Empire
    Many thanks for the guide. I actually tried to do it in the last development version and stopped at the row 2. Pagan Temples no longer employ priests :). Dunno if there is another possibility to get enough points for Great prophet in time...
  3. Enyavar

    Enyavar Chieftain

    May 16, 2015
    What was your difficulty level?
    Bad news first: Maybe it works on Marathon; it doesn't work in Normal Speed on the regular difficulty levels. I tried Monarch first and Regent Difficulty on Normal, and there is simply no way in these tiers.

    Almost good news however: On Heir level, I did the usual militia scouting to get the contents of the two huts in Asia Minor and Choresmia (northern Persia); Choresmia hut first. There, I was lucky to pop Mining, 5 turns before my regular research would have finished it; and thus I had Construction in turn 22 (no slavery yet, because the first quarries weren't finished). Even the Ziggurat hadn't been finished. My approach was to finish Ziggurat; then directly Ishtar Gate; then go for Oracle with two turns of Granary to fill some time. However, I had two turns missing for more Great People. Maybe no civic switch might have done me some good? So, I almost made it, but Greece appeared in turn 50 nevertheless.

    If someone wants to give it another try, here's my safegame of turn 22 (Heir Normal, DoC 1.15), right where it starts to become complicated. However, there are several good rolls on the random charts that are in the players favor, so this safegame should be better than most random new starts, I think:
    - 5 turns shaved off of the research time, long before turn 22
    - I popped a scout in the Turkey hut (Trebizont horse tile); scouting with that Unit will...
    - yield a 38 gold in Thracia, another 32 gold in Germania, and a second scout in Spain
    - I had a breakthrough event (in several saveloads) that gave me 11 beakers, which also helps

    I have tried several strategies based on that save, but maybe you are more resourceful and can manage to get the UHV1 on the easiest diff level on normal speed, too. If you do so, I'm curious how it's done.

    Attached Files:

  4. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

    Oct 27, 2014
    So I found a glitch that allowed me to win the UHV with Babylonia.

    1) Hold shift and enter to end a turn where you'd gain a UP free tech
    2) Continue holding until the new tech popup goes away. This will both close the tech pop up and advance to the next turn.
    3) Now you'll get 2 free techs.
    Leoreth likes this.
  5. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

    Oct 27, 2014
    Just as a addendum to my last post, I use the glitch to get Writing super early by going Mining (Free Masonry and Property) then Mythology (Free Ceremony and Writing)

    Even with getting an Edubba early figuring out a way to beat the tech UHV is not too easy. Though the other 2 UHVs were pretty trivial as long as I got the Hanging Gardens.
  6. Enyavar

    Enyavar Chieftain

    May 16, 2015
    Couldn't reproduce that effect in my game (DoC 1.15).
    When holding both keys just as you described, I still only got one free tech (but couldn't even choose which one, because of the held Shift+Enter key combination) and I advanced several turns in a row until I let loose of Enter.
    Holding just Shift and only press Enter for the turn advancement has no effect at all.
    Holding just Enter means that I'm alternating between the F6 screen and the tech advisor popup without advancing the turn.

    My guess is that, maybe, you have turned on some BUG options that I don't use? Or, that the trick is to hit a very precise timing.

    Though yes, it would be great to have eight instead of four "cradle" UP techs. Heck, even just six cradle UP techs might possibly enable a valid strategy.
  7. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

    Oct 27, 2014
    You have to let go of both shift and enter right between the closing of the tech obtained pop up and the opening of the pick a tech pop up. I found it by accident when skipping through the early game via shift enter a couple days ago.

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