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1.16 - Holy Roman Empire: looking for a strategy

Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by rmontaruli, Aug 23, 2020.

  1. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    I'm introducing another big mistake of this game.
    I attacked Poland, to get my third vassal without spreading Catholic religion in all its cities. Danzig was Protestant only.

    Deadline is 1650 AD.
    I attacked Krakow in 1630.
    Riga began independent, and Poland became Protestant with one city left.

    Spoiler :




    Luckily i saved the day!
    Poland capitulated.
    I got open border.
    I send a missionary to Danzig.
    Catholic religion spread there.
    I ask Poland to convert...
    Spoiler :




    1648 AD.
    Golden age!!!
     

    Attached Files:

  2. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Good point.
    And this is a matter for best strategy.
    In my game i choosed to ignore reformation because i didn't want make a war.
    I lost some turns to spread Catholicism again and rebuild some churches and monasteries...
     
  3. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    The third mistake of this game was the bad relations with Russia.
    In the beginning of the game i was able to get open border and friendly relations with them giving Ethics for free.
    Then i lost contact with Russians for a lot of turns.

    At a certain point of the game i had 6/8 friendly relations with european civs but my relation with Bizantines got worse.
    So, when Bizantium asked me to break my agreements with russians, i said yes.
    And Russians never talked to me for lots of turns (note: that exclamative point before russian score in a previous screenshot)
    I tried to keep Bizantines alive as long as i was able, but Bizantines collapsed at last, and my relation with Russians kept bad.
     
  4. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    Great Statesmen can be used to improve relations.
     
  5. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Let's talk about UHV3 and city placements.
    UHV3 prolong the game beyond 1700 (Prussians born) until 1850.
    Frankfurt flips to Prussians, and Brandeburg too, so my choice in this game was to settle Prag instead of Brandeburg: Prag does not flip.
    Spoiler :




    Less space but a stronger city in my core.
    My strategy is to produce GA in Wien and GS in Prag, so i built related buildings and wonders.
    In particular National Theatre in Wien and National Monument in Prag.
    Frankfurt trains units, with barracks, military academy and a couple of great generals.

    It worked: i got just GA and GS (and that GProphet in Rome who saved my UHV1), and i completed first part of UHV3 in 1800 AD.
    Ten GA/GS in Vienna.

    Spoiler :




    Now i have 50 years at Epic speed to complete UHV3.

    The first big problem, i don't know how to resolve is: how to de-vassalize my vassals?
    Vassalized civs don't count for UHV3.

    The other problem is to have enough european civs.
    There are:
    Portugal
    Spain
    France (vassalized)
    England
    Dutch
    Prussia
    Italy (vassalized)
    Russia

    Bizantines collapsed
    Poland collapsed
    Scandinavia collapsed

    Some says Moors count as european, but at the moment they are very angry because of different religion, past wars and other things.

    So i must try to de-vassalize my vassals, and then use diplomacy, gifts, and GStatesmen.

    Anyway i think of an a-historical strategy: convert and vassalize Aztecs and Incas to get UHV2.
    In my game England collapsed very soon and my vassal Italy could get two Conqueror events and get some cities in the new world.
     

    Attached Files:

    borhap88 likes this.
  6. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    For getting your vassals to declare independence, you have to demand tribute from them, and they have to feel bold enough to reject you. If you are much stronger than them, they will roll over to placate you. If they have grown into a colonial empire, however, they will feel confident enough to reject you (and thus start a war for independence). Most of their military strength will be found scattered all over the world in their colonies, so your military should be suitable enough to invade their territory to pressure back into peace. That is also one reason that Italy may not be the best vassal to take, as they will never develop colonies, unlike France, Spain, and Portugal, and thus it will be harder to get them to declare independence from you.
     
  7. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Maybe in an update of the mod, rules could be changed and the effect of a civic could unbind vassal state (something like slaves...).

    In my game, i posted screenshots, italy was able to get two conqueror events and colonize america.
    So, i can try your suggestion, because i need to de-vassalize my vassals to achive UHV target.

    I'll ask some tributes. But what if they say NO without de-vassalize?
     
  8. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    I agree, I'd like to eventually see more flexibility and depth to the way vassals are handled. Wow, I don't think I've ever seen an Italy get conqueror events like that, that's nuts. And as you can see in my screenshot, the only two options for the vassal are to give in to the demand, or launch a war for independence.
    Spoiler Demand Tribute :
    20200902234339_1.jpg
     
  9. DanLT3

    DanLT3 Warlord

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    Demanding all their resources usually makes them declare war on you and leave you as vassal.
     
  10. rmontaruli

    rmontaruli Prince

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    Unfortunately it didn't work.
    I tried to ask Italy every resource they trade, for nothing, and the answer was: "Sure, take whatever you want! Sorry not to have more resources to gift to you!"

    I'll fail UHV3.

    Maybe i have to change my strategy and try to de-vassalize my vassals in 1650 in some way.
     
  11. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    Yeah, I had that happen to me once with Portugal. They're too afraid of your military might, I believe. You might try deleting several military units until you are more equal in terms of strength, but I still think the easiest way of getting around this is to vassalize 3 of the 4 out of Portugal, France, Spain, Poland. As Poland collapses, and the first 3 grow to be very powerful colonial empires.
     
  12. Kott

    Kott Chieftain

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    I think in theory it is possible to vassalize Poland, Byzantium and Vikings, then let them all collapse. But I have never succeeded with such a strategy.
     
  13. Hickman888

    Hickman888 Warlord

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    Poland is definitely the easiest candidate for vassalization, as they are both weak and a direct neighbor. The Vikings might be doable, but you would have to sail your army across the sea to attack their cities. The Byzantines, however, you would have to somehow get them to adopt Catholicism as their religion, which is hard considering they usually run Theocracy. If you could pull it off, that would be quite the alternate history game!
     

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