[Vote] (1-20) Proposal: First Great Prophet always spawns in the capital

Approval Vote for Proposal #20 (instructions below)


  • Total voters
    148
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Recursive

Already Looping
Moderator
Supporter
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
4,585
Location
Antarctica
Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented. You can vote for both options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 1, Proposal 20

Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor(s): @Recursive
Previous Discussion Thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...-prophet-always-spawns-in-the-capital.679370/

Proposal Details
Currently the first GP spawns in your city with the highest faith output. The change here is to have the first GP always spawn in your capital.

Rationale: There are three main reasons to do this.

1) Many beliefs work their best when in the capital. The simple fact is, 95% of the time, I want my holy city in the capital. So this means I either take a lesser benefit, or I lose turns moving my GP into my capital, which in tight religion races could mean not founding.

2) The capital is very hard to convert. Most of the time, your capital will take 2 missionary charges to convert, as opposed to the normal 1 for your other satellites. This is a BIG difference in that early game when all of those little things matter, it means that your religion spreads slower, which slows down your snowball.

3) Even in the rare times I actually want my holy city in a satellite, its rare that the one with the highest faith is the one I want to spawn in either, as often its more about position than it is faith. The capital at least tends to be a more centralized place in your civ, so I can send my GP to that satellite more easily should I want to. Contrast this to a spawn in a satellite, and then sending the GP all the way across the empire.


All told, the benefits of this change far outweigh the once in a blue moon times I would want a GP in a different city.
 
Last edited:
STRONGLY DISAGREE!!!

Why?

At harder difficulties where you can't have your own religion, or in games where you just skip on a religion, you usually got to war. Going to war means taking a different capital. Different capital MIGHT be a holy city.

Do I really want to move my GP from my unholy capital all the way to the other side of the planet to my actual conquered holy city?
 
Looks like this will pass comfortably, but there appears to be a significant minority that prefers the current system. Would it be possible to add an option to revert to the current behaviour? Even an SQL define would be helpful.
 
Looks like this will pass comfortably, but there appears to be a significant minority that prefers the current system. Would it be possible to add an option to revert to the current behaviour? Even an SQL define would be helpful.
My only issue with that is, compared to a lot of other votes, this one is passing by a quite comfortable margin right now. If we start putting in secondary options for every proposal that had a "decent minority" we are going to get pretty nuts pretty fast.
 
My only issue with that is, compared to a lot of other votes, this one is passing by a quite comfortable margin right now. If we start putting in secondary options for every proposal that had a "decent minority" we are going to get pretty nuts pretty fast.
Most proposals will be able to be reverted via sql. This sort of request is generally done via github. The current way we do things is actually gated behind the BALANCE_CORE_BELIEFS mod option. This proposal is a request to revert back to the BNW way of handling things. In this case, it would be very easy to implement this proposal by changing which mod option (create a new option) to gate the randomly spawning GP code.

Edit: Oops, forgot that this is for first GP only. That makes it a bit more complicated.
 
Last edited:
Most proposals will be able to be reverted via sql. This sort of request is generally done via github. The current way we do things is actually gated behind the BALANCE_CORE_BELIEFS mod option. This proposal is a request to revert back to the BNW way of handling things. In this case, it would be very easy to implement this proposal by changing which mod option (create a new option) to gate the randomly spawning GP code.
Ok that's cool. And that might be a good idea to add in to each passed proposal. If there is a little SQL nugget that people can use to revert a proposal, and its easy to add in, seems reasonable to me.
 
Ok that's cool. And that might be a good idea to add in to each passed proposal. If there is a little SQL nugget that people can use to revert a proposal, and its easy to add in, seems reasonable to me.
Most of the proposals that require dll work are just so that the option can be turned on (in the promotion table, in the policy table, etc) via SQL, or are just numbers that can be changed via SQL, etc.
 
Looks like this will pass comfortably, but there appears to be a significant minority that prefers the current system. Would it be possible to add an option to revert to the current behaviour? Even an SQL define would be helpful.
Ok that's cool. And that might be a good idea to add in to each passed proposal. If there is a little SQL nugget that people can use to revert a proposal, and its easy to add in, seems reasonable to me.
This will not be done for every proposal, but I'll do it for this one. Make a feature request on Github please.
 
It's convenient for sure.
But I liked having the odd case where the capital and the holy city were different. How often did that happen anyway? To me maybe 3 times?
Do -Great Prophets- have to appear in capitals? I don't think so.
 
STRONGLY DISAGREE!!!

Why?

At harder difficulties where you can't have your own religion, or in games where you just skip on a religion, you usually got to war. Going to war means taking a different capital. Different capital MIGHT be a holy city.

Do I really want to move my GP from my unholy capital all the way to the other side of the planet to my actual conquered holy city?
First of all in higher difficulties it's much easier to found your own religion than to take an AI capital/holy city as long as you get a decent pantheon. Even if you do take a holy city from someone else, your capital is never going to be "on the other side of the planet", otherwise it would mean that you've conquered more than one AI, in which case you probably should go up in the difficulty levels.
 
I've raised a Github request to add an option to restore the current behaviour. I was going to wait until the vote closed but I understand that some changes are already being implemented.

I've finally realised that what I should have done was to create a counterproposal "Add an option to make the first GP spawn in the capital" - too late now of course.
 
Proposal passed on November 1, 2022.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom