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1.25 released! (Better late than never)

Discussion in '[MAC+WIN] Civ4 - History Rewritten' started by Xyth, Dec 13, 2021.

  1. Skidizzle

    Skidizzle Gameshow Host

    Joined:
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    113
    Kia ora! It's been forever, I'm glad you're back
     
    Xyth likes this.
  2. rsab

    rsab Warlord

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    Sep 20, 2014
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    180
    Hi Xyth,
    after some testing I would like to write down some thoughts. I did not finish a full game yet, so I'm still missing to test some of the new features.

    First the best new features in my opinion:
    • New music is stunning, Ian did a great job. Having so much variety depending on the civ you're playing makes game more immersive.
    • I enjoy the new Fort features. I don't really use forts commonly, but under certain circumstances they can be used in a significant strategic way. I like the way now they can help to expand your colour over the map.
    • All changes on tenets, civics, traits... all of them they look fine to me. I may explore further and deeper the changes to Great People in order to get an opinion.
    • Don't know why but game is now much more difficult. It looks to me AI expands much more faster than previous versions.
    • All the small tweaks and fixes to some issues and additions: now game feels much more improved (Jetavaramaya, natural wonders icons, new civs and leaders...)
    Here some features I don't know how to use properly, or I don't feel yet used to, or I feel strange using them, or I don't enjoy them....
    • I already stated that diplomacy feels very unstable: pacts are repeatedly signed and cancelled by AI. Also, I miss an explanation of what provides each type of pact (it looks Non-agresion pacts they work as an Open Borders agreement?).
    • No matters if I play Emperor or Monarch: now it is very rare you get a green face from AI.
    • The possibility to sell resources in exchange to an amount of wealth makes very tedious the diplomacy: I tend to sell resources, and every 10 turns cancel pacts to re-sell the sources again.
    • Diplomacy tab needs to be improved in order to get a glance to all civs relations
    • The espionage requires now a different use. Since most of the espionage boosters are % boosters, now I feel forced to use the espionage slider once Law is researched.
    Great mod Xyth. Thanks for keep improving.
     
  3. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    It's great, isn't it? My biggest regret in taking so long to release 1.25 is not getting Ian's music out to people sooner.

    Trying to fix this.

    There is a Diplomacy concept article in the pedia that details it all and there should be tooltips in the tech tree and such. Let me know if you notice any places where further tooltips could be added to help with this. And yes, Non-Aggression Pacts are like open borders but only for military units. Non-military units (and foreign trade routes) require a Right of Passage Agreement.

    Games during the beta phase were too peaceful and I think I've been a bit overzealous in correcting that.

    This is definitely not intended and I'm trying to fix it. "Annual" deals like resources should only be tradable for other annual deals (like wealth per turn).

    As mentioned earlier I intend to add a second tab to the Foreign Advisor that will restore and hopefully improve most of the Overview/Glance functionality.

    This is intended. It's always been too easy for human players to ignore the espionage slider, giving them an advantage over the AI that almost always uses it. I'm open to feedback on whether I've gone too far with this though.
     
    cobbaut likes this.
  4. Luzzy00

    Luzzy00 Chieftain

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    I am still having issues with crashing on this version in windows. Is there a way that I can save the crash to help you resolve issue Xyth? For reference I always play odyssey on either immortal or emperor difficulty. These crashes have always seemed to happen even on older versions, to the point where I started changed my strategies to win around 1700's before I run into the issues because it is beyond frustrating to invest 10+ hours into your mod per game and have it become unstable. You have created something that in my opinion would put the development team at civilization to shame and how you managed it alone is amazing.
     
  5. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    If the crash is easily replicable (e.g, load game -> do a thing -> trigger crash) please post a saved game and I'll see what I can find. If they're happening haphazardly there's a good chance that they're due to MAFs (Civ IV can only make use of 2GB of RAM), which are somewhat unavoidable. There are a few things you can do to try reduce them though, let me know.
     
  6. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Just sort of sneaking this in here in case you missed it :mischief:

    "Just out of curiosity, is there an easy way to change the colors of Paved Roads and Highways? Lol, at my age, my vision isn't exactly spiffy, so any of changing the current colors to different shades would be helpful".
     
  7. dretnoth

    dretnoth Warlord

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    Europe - Slovakia
    Hi, i have a reports that's are probably know: (I write once again a long letter, and once again some lines are repeating. So please, keep wit me.)
    -Marae (Polinezia UB) needs monument to construct. But the city have Obelisk (Egyptian UB) and i cannot construct Marae.

    -AI: Still trying to hand over a city but the offer is still empty (No raze city game option ON) +Suddenly i don't remember if there is a disband city option.

    -I have mega map and 25+ civs, I am on top, and i seeing a repeating element: the world is on war. It don't matter that the empire is on war whit multiple of his neighbors, it declare war on empire that is oversee, even if they had a good relation ships. Or they loosing a war and still declare a war against another opponent. Only once i notice the betrayal conviction act.
    +Second to this, once the empire is on war they are more like to declare war on another opponent. Like in my game there was a peace for quite long time then suddenly one break the peace and its a snow ball from that point.

    -Trading a resources: AI still trying to ask something that they no side need. The cost of resource drop to not needed the moment you have one. Like i need a stone, but no one want to selling it to me. But once someone does, then the others just offered it to me really cheap.
    +can be paying hard cash for a resources (one time payment) excluded from the diplomacy board? Or it will change to pay per turn? Or will that be a another option. (after the time period we will pay this per turn.) They just keep asking more and more cash every time they make deal and then break it.
    +Can we set that the resource that come from

    -AI diplomacy when they are vassal, then whats its the point of the diplomacy agreements? For improve relations and trade?
    +Can i force them to have (or to join) a collective (federation) treaty about the unit passing. (for others vassals) Or mutual sharing of resources? (that will means that at last one piece of resource type is protected from force trade/ "give it to me!") This will benefit the small empires that need the large amount of different resource to prevent them from break down.


    Idea:
    -Can be there two icons refereeing to you are on war on side panel displaying empires rank list. Like normal icon is two swords and if there is this x-turns you will not be able make peace (refuse to talk): icon: two swords in circle or shield, so unbreakable.

    -When a empire drag other empire to a war, then i will like if they are linked in means that if the original make peace, then the peace come for all who joined the war this way. Or at last a window making strong peace talking diplomacy will take place. In this solution one can get out from a war they agree to join because they asked for it, or you can push the war by saying no to peace. ( (in previous versions) they was doing: dragging a neighbor to a war towards the common enemy then negotiate peace for themself)

    -Apostolic palace, UI: resolution: World peace (not just make peace with someone, but all)

    -when asking for go to war can there be a option to support differently that declare war like: sending resources, and money, or (production points?). [This can be just a options to reply or just pop up window with options or just opening the diplomacy window for regular trade.] This type of help will fall when peace or if he declare the real war. On diplomacy window this type of treaty can be marked as "Helping wit war effort." (the next step is just a alliance or something else.)

    -The ting about stealing territory via culture from my vassals, is bothering me. I know the goal of game is to capture the map, overtake the cities, but sometimes, you empire is not ready to take on another city. Can i ask it will be hard to make script that will check if the culture tile is in working range of another city (that 20 tiles around the cities), and if yes then not to steal the territory, or in opposite way to kept them for itself, to guarantee the city functionality. (Can be obstructed by forts, (camps?))
    +That come for conquering the cities. Instead of just three options: Take, destroy, return a four one shall be a "Puppet government". (This will create a pseudo vassal city state. The home empire will not get full control over city. He cant produce units or getting money, research, but it will get the culture border. The puppet city state working on its own develop like building buildings can produce dedicated worker and defense draft force that will stay in the city. The color can be white in comparison to barbarians. Of course the city can be liberated, and if the owner will fall a revolution can be instant trigger.) [probably mostly unrealistic]

    -Break down of empire by resistance to create a new empire. For a certain number of turns mark it as a rebelled empire that will lock the population change (mostly going extra fast down due lack of resources). Same come for a happiness, unhappiness, health, unhealthy, dissent, culture composition. When a revolution appears near, or in the former parent, current parent, and ability to join this empire to overthrown the old one.

    -Draft: (It work one population per unit? Right?) If yes then a lite boost that will still basically cost one per population, but.. A extra value for the size of sacrificed population. Like when you drafting from a city size of 10. Then a value 9 (10-1) will be send to capital. There will be bar that if filled a another draft unit will be created (if received value from all draft in cities * some smart formula about prices > cost of unit = create another unit) This shall fixed the question about cost of draft.

    -did the cost for stealing the tech drooping by number how many know it, like it do for research?
    +Can this price be described on diplomacy window, like pop up window?
    +Can internet wonder (he still granting the techs right?) just doping the price of tech after two know it and extra down for the owner of that wonder?

    -Can be prayer tenet changed from +% cost for some leaders production (mostly useless) for like a double support cost for units outside borders?

    -Minimum distance on witch one can build a another city is 3. But there is problem when large city is conquered and then there is a time period of waiting to get his culture to start build up and claiming territory. On previous games the AI use this to sneak a city into the position and screw up the big city once it come online. Can be the minimum distance for a another city if its not yours increase to 4? (3 for yous 4 for enemy)
    +Or there can be some pseudo cultural territory on half force of original, that can be overshadow by normal type of culture claim, but the sole purpose of this is to prevent sneaking city to free spot of fort next to city to claim that resource.

    -can Subsistence or Reciprocity civic contain something like half pollution from dessert and town or something like that? (Are we not thinking about civilization that come from deserts?)
    -can be long-bowman not be up-gradable to a musket-man? (Its a skirmish unit)
    -For a religion wonder can we split the +1 income to, +0,5 come to a wonder, and the other +0,5 will stay in the city where that temple is?
    -It will be hard to implement (getting free scout/ warrior) from a sea village to stay that unit on the ship, even if that ship don't have carry slots? [possibly force upload when reach owner city]
    -Barbarians who committing pillage carry the gold whit them. [this gold possibly goes to collective bank]

    Thanks for you patience, and glad that you are still with us.
     
  8. hello_user

    hello_user Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2022
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    1
    Thanks a lot for the mod!
    Noticed a few odd things after the last update:
    1) After about 300 turns of the game, the AI did not declare anyone
    war.
    2) A very strange resource trading system, which was written about above - AI randomly cancels agreements.

    I really wanted to ask in the next update to add more resources and integrate natural wonders into the map:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/map-script-planet-generator.180995/
    In any case, thanks a lot for the mod anyway, and hundreds of wasted hours :goodjob:
     
  9. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    israel
    Hi Xyth and anyone here,

    Xyth, i have taken your source code , with advanced diplomacy.
    i extracted some parts from it and merged it into my advciv basis.

    got a couple of questions:
    1. did you or players here had any issues with the new additions?
    2. does the AI offer all of the new deals and is it doing it amongst it self and other AI?
    in particular - did you see the AI offer Free trade agreement? (which is the soul one i took for now from the mod).
    in my merge , i didnt see the ai offer it at all, so i added some code to ai_dodiplo function.
    3. if you have some updated on the ask aince last time you included it (1.25 beta) would you be s kind to update the link for me?

    thank you :)
     
  10. Veebs

    Veebs Chieftain

    Joined:
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    I just played the new version, and I love the changes! I have been running into some issues like others though. Here is some of my feedback:

    -I love the switch to having Priests generate happiness and Doctors generate health. It has made managing dissent a much more enjoyable task, and has made settling Great Prophets a very interesting decision.

    -I love all of the new music, sounds, and visuals! They are awesome.

    -I haven't seen them in action too much, but the Military Unit changes, especially to grenadier, are very intriguing.

    -I was very concerned about the removal of open borders, but all in all, I think the new right of passage system has been acceptable. However, I never had to fight a war with another player that I did not border. I would be concerned about how this would play out, especially if I had to cross through an ally's territory to reach an enemy. I would imagine that under the current system, the enemy could reach me, but I would be unable to reach her before non-aggression pacts.

    -The AI players are seriously schizophrenic when it comes to offering and rescinding embassies and right of passage. I also found that I was getting the diplomatic penalties for expelling ambassadors despite the fact that it was the other player who had cancelled the agreements.

    -I have found it near impossible to engage in much meaningful diplomacy with AI players. Negative attitudes stack up very quickly.

    -I do think the elimination of building espionage and spy specialist pre-post offices has gone a bit too far. I do use the espionage slider more, but I would still use it more even with a couple espionage points and spy buildings here and there. The only way for me to create an Espionage city now before the Paper tech is to settle Great Merchants.

    -Great Barrier Reef has never generated for me on a random map, even before 1.25. I also don't think it has ever worked for me on the World Map either.

    -Not related to 1.25, but can someone explain the Forbearance tenet to me? I do not get how it would be helpful, especially with Proselytism, Syncretism, and Pluralism, each of which is amazing! Please don't interpret this as a request to tamper with those three though. I love them too much!

    -A suggestion for the future would be a building like the monastery for corporations. I would really love the chance to build executives outside of the HQ city since my HQs are usually in cities with a massive commerce/gold focus and not much production.

    I am very excited about this mod and the changes! I can't wait to see where this goes!
     
    rsab likes this.
  11. Grassland Farm

    Grassland Farm Warlord

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    This is why I sadly tend to not be able to get myself to finish a game with this mod. And of course, they always come back a few turns later to ask a new embassy.
     
  12. Drakarska

    Drakarska Epic Dadness

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    Actually, the rev before this the AI was solid on Diplo. IIRC on a previous Xyth post, he stated that he was experimenting with some new Diplo features ( amongst other goodies). If I can find the relevant post, Xyth is aware of the issue and is working on it when he has time available.
    When I get a break from work and RL, I'll see if I can upload the previous rev.. Unless Xyth has it in the DL archives section, in which case, peeps can DL it from there.
     
  13. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Hi everyone. I have a couple weeks of leave coming up at Easter and intend to use some of that to try fix the 2 critical problems with diplomacy (trading lump sums of gold for resources, and the AI canceling deals too often). Haven't got time to respond to all your comments right now but will try to in the coming days.
     
  14. rsab

    rsab Warlord

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    Hi, just wanted to reinforce or add some appreciations to some of the opinions:

    I'm also concerned about the removal of open borders, and me neither have had the chance to have a war with no-neighbour players. I need more testing to have a solid opinion.

    Agree

    Same here!

    I may agree, but also here I need more testing to express a solid opinon.

    About Tenets and Civics me I always have a prefered ones and I'm used to follow some patterns. But I like having other choices for some specific cases. About Tolerance tenets: I'm used to start with Proselytism if I found a new religion (or I adopt a religion not widely expanded on my civ). Once my expansion process is ended, I tend to switch to any other, depending on the game. In case my leader has Judicial trait, i think Forbereance is clearly better than Syncretism. Also in some cases where the religion I've founded has been spreaded and adopted by a bunch of other civs, and if I have a lot of religion strength, I would like to adopt Forbereance in order to force all those civs to adopt my tenets (so making them have better opinion of me).

    If you feel that so much annoying, you can play on version 1.24. It works fine.

    Sorry for my English skills.
    Salute!
     
  15. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    Hey Xyth,

    If you need some help or something with the sdk, ill be happy to.
    Sprcially with the advanced diplo stuff.
     
    Xyth likes this.
  16. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    That would be immensely helpful. In particular if you could look into why lump sums of gold are now able to be offered for turn-limited deals like resources. This shouldn't be happening and I'm struggling to figure out why. I've attached the 1.25 dll source code.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 13, 2022
  17. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Only commenting on a few things cos the diplomacy problems are my main priority at the moment.


    It's on my todo list.

    Is this because you have the Hagia Sophia? Or did you obtain the Obelisk some other way?

    The scoreboard hasn't been updated fully for the new diplomacy features yet. I can try something like this when I get to it.

    Once the diplomacy problems are fixed I'll take another look at this.

    Forbearance is all about strengthening relations with other civics via your religion. Your tenet choices cause 50% less attitude penalty if they differ and you're more likely to make them switch to the same tenets as you, thus making them like you even more.

    I deliberately want civs to have less direct control over corporations so I feel this would be a step backwards. I was actually considering removing executives altogether but I think they work well as a reward for owning the Corporate HQ.

    1.24.1 is still available here: https://www.moddb.com/mods/history-rewritten/downloads/history-rewritten-1241

    I always keep at least one previous version of HR available on ModDB.
     
    rsab likes this.
  18. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    Roger that sir.

    Ill work on that on the weekend.
     
    Xyth likes this.
  19. keldath

    keldath LivE LonG AnD PrOsPeR

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    Xyth,
    do you have a repo?
    if not, i recommend,
    i can help you with adding dll stuff (did lots of work on my mod.
     
  20. Xyth

    Xyth History Rewritten

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    Thanks so much.

    I don't, no. It's one of those things I've been meaning to look into for years but never had the time. I'm also kinda reluctant to change my workflow too much at this stage of things. Maybe for the DLL stuff though since I'm much less proficient at working with that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022

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