[Vote] (1-28) Proposal: Netherlands Polder buildable on Coastal sea tiles instead of fresh water tiles.

[randomnub]

Oh well, I guess I know what civ I'll be playing first with the new patch

Village/Town adjacency is gone or still there? Also, how much movement would it cost for a friendly/hostile sea/land unit to move over it?

 

[azum4roll]

Ships can't attack from forts. Can land units attack from polder? Can they be melee attacked by ships?

 

[pineappledan]

Ships can't attack from forts. Can land units attack from polder? Can they be melee attacked by ships?

Don’t actually know that. It uses the pontoon bridge code, so it works however it does there. I seem to recall units being able to attack from the pontoon onto land just fine?

 

[randomnub]

A pratical example of a situation that might cause some weirdness:

Spoiler :

Assuming I settle next to that barbarian encampment, I could build polders on all the red marked hexes right? What if I settle another town on that small island next the pathfinder, will I be able to send a land trade route passing sea through polders? Would the enemy be able to attack my city with a navy, embarked troops, disembarked troops, both...?

 

[randomnub]

Also, what happens once we discover coastal oil under a polder? I think it would still need an offshore platform, with a fishing boat removing the polder. Quite weird.

Don’t actually know that. It uses the pontoon bridge code, so it works however it does there. I seem to recall units being able to attack from the pontoon onto land just fine?

As much cool as it would be having this new UI, I think we can't implement it blindly.

 

[pineappledan]

Also, what happens once we discover coastal oil under a polder? I think it would still need an offshore platform, with a fishing boat removing the polder. Quite weird

That’s how it works with all improvements. Not weird at all.

 

[randomnub]

Well no, the 'realistic' solution here would be to make the oil well available over that tile.

 

[pineappledan]

Well no, the 'realistic' solution here would be to make the oil well available over that tile.

The polder will not change the underlying terrain. It’s still water. It’s going to require an oil platform.

 

[ilteroi]

allowing embarkation for workers needs new code but that's minor, the real problem will be pathfinding for naval units (area ids don't match to water bodies anymore) and tactical combat (AI will most probably be very confused by these polder tiles). please don't break anything when implementing all that. i think it's quite risky.

 

[Slyceth]

Don’t actually know that. It uses the pontoon bridge code, so it works however it does there. I seem to recall units being able to attack from the pontoon onto land just fine?

I've tried experimenting with the pontoon bridge but it's extremely glitchy, especially with railroads

 

[usadefcon1]

Is it possible to change the domian to land when the plodder is built? Then it's just another land tile.

 

[pineappledan]

Is it possible to change the domian to land when the plodder is built? Then it's just another land tile.

That creates more problems than it solves. Short answer is it’s not doable if you don’t want to break the map graphics.

 

[Recursive]

allowing embarkation for workers needs new code but that's minor, the real problem will be pathfinding for naval units (area ids don't match to water bodies anymore) and tactical combat (AI will most probably be very confused by these polder tiles). please don't break anything when implementing all that. i think it's quite risky.

@Rekk Are you able to account for these things? If not, I think this proposal will need to be vetoed.

 

[pineappledan]

Embarked workers does not need new code aside from some easy sql additions. I have implemented embarked worker unique improvements years ago and the automated workers are very good at using them.

It requires testing to determine if any pathfinding adjustments are necessary. Unlike the pontoon, the polder’s being walkable is not the singular point of their existence, and they aren’t going to meaningfully lead to anywhere, unlike the pontoon bridge in the civil war scenario which bridges a major section of the map, and is a pivotal choke point in the scenario. As long as they aren’t disruptive to naval pathfinding for attackers trying to aim at a city surrounded by polders, I can’t imagine what AI adjustments could possibly be necessary.

 

[Stalker0]

Embarked workers does not need new code aside from some easy sql additions. I have implemented embarked worker unique improvements years ago and the automated workers are very good at using them.

It requires testing to determine if any pathfinding adjustments are necessary. Unlike the pontoon, the polder’s being walkable is not the singular point of their existence, and they aren’t going to meaningfully lead to anywhere. As long as they aren’t disruptive to naval pathfinding for attackers trying to aim at a city surrounded by polders, I can’t imagine what AI adjustments could possibly be necessary.

Would it be possible to make polders like forts, where a ship can go into them? That would help prevent naval pathfinding disruptions wouldn't it?

 

[Recursive]

Would it be possible to make polders like forts, where a ship can go into them? That would help prevent naval pathfinding disruptions wouldn't it?

They could be made into "passable improvements", yes. Maybe that would work.

 

[pineappledan]

That’s always been the proposal. Make them passable by both land and naval units. I have never been under the impression the desire was to make these block ship movement.

 

[Recursive]

Okay, that was not made clear, but if that's the case the naval pathfinding shouldn't be much of an issue. The AI already knows how to handle passable improvements.

Edit: However, will the AI's land units know to use them?

 

[pineappledan]

Use them to do what, exactly? They are improvements in your own land that 99% of the time won’t path to anywhere they need to go. They will just stick out a little into the ocean

 

[Recursive]

Use them to do what, exactly? They are improvements in your own land that 99% of the time won’t path to anywhere they need to go. They will just stick out a little into the ocean

Suppose an embarked enemy unit enters a Polder (or is already on a Polder when it gets created, for that matter). I don't know if combat AI would know how to handle that, or if the game would take them out of the water once the improvement is created.