$1.2bn for Iraqi police training missing....

As for the pool....

Yes, a pool could be useful for training policemen, or at least getting them in decent health, but is something like that really a priority at this point in time? From what I have heard, the Iraqi gov't is having a hard time just arming and clothing thier police, but hey, at least they have a place to swim...

...but then again, they don't! According to CNN, the pool is located at a training facility in Baghdad that so far hasn't been used yet. Meanwhile, $36M got spent on armoured vehicles, body armour and communication hardware that the police force doesn't seem to have. Oh, and the training centre that the Iraqi police force does use? Apparently they have a problem with human waste dripping out of the plumbing system and onto floors below... (link)
 
From what I have heard, the Iraqi gov't is having a hard time just arming and clothing thier police, but hey, at least they have a place to swim...

Obviously painting the walls of their buildings is an extravigance they could do without. I hear they use white copier paper too. :eek: I bet if the entire force subsisted off of nutragrain bars they could stop wasting money on things like meat.

Psst! [wisper] I hear they sometimes drink liquids other than water, oh the luxurious waste! [/wisper] :nono:
 
Obviously painting the walls of their buildings is an extravigance they could do without. I hear they use white copier paper too. :eek: I bet if the entire force subsisted off of nutragrain bars they could stop wasting money on things like meat.

Psst! [wisper] I hear they sometimes drink liquids other than water, oh the luxurious waste! [/wisper] :nono:

again, you're pointing out other costs that are unrelated to the merits of building a pool, and making an absurd hyperbolic statement.
 
Obviously painting the walls of their buildings is an extravigance they could do without. I hear they use white copier paper too. :eek: I bet if the entire force subsisted off of nutragrain bars they could stop wasting money on things like meat.

Psst! [wisper] I hear they sometimes drink liquids other than water, oh the luxurious waste! [/wisper] :nono:

Are you really comparing paper and food to a bloody swimming pool?

Here's a fun quiz: if you had to build up a new police force and were given a sum of money that could only cover 2 of the 3 following options, what would they be:

(a) weapons/armour
(b) functional police barracks
(c) a swimming pool


Time's up! DOes your answer include 'c'? ;)
 
Are you really comparing paper and food to a bloody swimming pool?

Here's a fun quiz: if you had to build up a new police force and were given a sum of money that could only cover 2 of the 3 following options, what would they be:

(a) weapons/armour
(b) functional police barracks
(c) a swimming pool


Time's up! DOes your answer include 'c'? ;)

So the missing money could have opened the facility with the pool, and we're forced to pick only two because of all the corruption? Those *former children of undetermined parentage*!
 
again, you're pointing out other costs that are unrelated to the merits of building a pool, and making an absurd hyperbolic statement.

We are not discussing the merits of building a pool, they have already been laid bare to you and all that your stubborness on that is doing now is embarrassing you/.

We are talking about aquisition, concerning which you believe we should just buy form priority #1 down regardless of build time, transport time, equipment availabilty, training timetables, manpower, or any of a thousand factors that could and probably are in play. Note the article doesn't mention any of those ciricumstances, nore does it deny they aren't in play. All it did was mention there existed a swimming pool, and just like this guy wanted you took his absurdly obvious ploy hook/line/and sinker. OMFG THEY BOUGHT A SWIMMING POOL INSTEAD OF BULLETS LOLOLOL RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE.

Under the MRT plan, the Iraqi government might get copy paper in 2054.

Are you really comparing paper and food to a bloody swimming pool?

No. I am comparing similarly ridiculous "examples" this guy could have sited as corruption that you would have fallen for just as easily without thinking about it. Honestly, do the Iraqi police really need to drink anything but water if they are going without bullets, and isn't anything else a waste of money?

Here's a fun quiz: if you had to build up a new police force and were given a sum of money that could only cover 2 of the 3 following options, what would they be:

(a) weapons/armour
(b) functional police barracks
(c) a swimming pool

Your comment is not a valid comparison to the actual situation, and irrelevant on a couple other levels. But, assuming I had the power to make the two I chose appear instantaneously a and b. Thats not the case, though, is it?
 
So by your own declaration the debate on the merits of the pool are over and you have bested me? The will to be right doesnt make you right nor does it mean you have a solid argument. You know how utterly obvious this is to anyone?
 
Patroklos: You can talk about the difficult situation, the merits of a pool, or whatever, but the facts remain that for the money given by the US taxpayers, the Iraqi police force has a serious lack equipment and training, barracks that are less than functional, and an olympic pool that no-one has used. However you spin it, that is a serious mismanagement of funds.
 
So by your own declaration the debate on the merits of the pool are over and you have bested me? The will to be right doesnt make you right nor does it mean you have a solid argument. You know how utterly obvious this is to anyone?

If you had provided even a cursory arguement to the contrary you could say that, but since you haven't you are the one claiming arbitary victory.

I on the other hand have put forward multiple arguements, all of which remain valid, so arbitrary does not apply to me.

Arbitrary, your word of the day. Provide a definition, its proper use in a sentance, and you get a gold star. Assignment is due tomarrow :p

that is a serious mismanagement of funds.

I think i have said this three times now. Unfortunetly the simply existance of a pool and trailers is not an example of this as the author and his dogmatically hypnotized prize bass MRT maintain. The fact that the entire facitity is not in operation, qualified with constuction times or a list of damning reasons why this is not the case (and there may be perfectly good reasons as well) would be. The article doesn't supply that.
 
that a pool being built is a red flag indication that this was doomed to be screwed. some of us are just more gifted with our ability to make sense of factors in front of us.
 
I am a Navy Supply Officer in charge of budget/acquisition at a base with two nuclear reactors and have lived/work on a naval installation for damn near 27 years, and the first thing that popped out at me is that a pool and trailers is such a common thing on a military facitlity that this was nothing out of the ordinary, unqualified. The reason for that? Its not.

Incidently I just shelled out 38K of your tax dollars to resurface a gym floor while troops are dieing in Iraq and instead of buying needed nuclear reactor parts, and there is a perfecly good reason for that. Ohhh the waste, right? :crazyeye:

Your chasing your tale here despite the steak sitting in front of you.
 
you're so full of pork military spending that rancid pork like this doesnt raise any red flags.
 
also any comparison to the military needs of the united states to the police force training needs of iraqis is bunk pure and simple. what is good for the united states isnt the same as iraq based on the maturity of our armed forces infrastructure.

do you know what a comparative level of facilities is at other police training facilities in that part of the world?
 
Incidently I just shelled out 38K of your tax dollars to resurface a gym floor while troops are dieing in Iraq and instead of buying needed nuclear reactor parts, and there is a perfecly good reason for that. Ohhh the waste, right? :crazyeye:

Your chasing your tale here despite the steak sitting in front of you.

I thought that any unalocated money the armed forces have that are not used are simply refunded to the taxpayers and since there is no incentive to "save" or "spend wisely" the funds the forces simply spend the full allotement ?

Besides its not like a life and death situation like whats happening on the ground in Iraq. (The marines probably arent happy that such wastage is occuring :D )
 
you're so full of pork military spending that rancid pork like this doesnt raise any red flags.

No, I am simply know how to support a working military facility, and the rules/nature of acquisitions. You have the facitily management skills of a Command and Conquer player.

But note your reaction to the simple comment:

"Incidentally I just shelled out 38K of your tax dollars to resurface a gym floor while troops are dieing in Iraq and instead of buying needed nuclear reactor parts, and there is a perfectly good reason for that."

Notice, again, that you just focused on the bright lights and sparkles. Concerning the OP that just makes you a normal lazy media skimmer, but since I included a qualifier and you still cry foul without taking it into consideration (or inquiring as to what it is) that puts you square into knee jerk reactionary ripe for shock journalist manipulation territory.

This is easy. Let’s try "I also bought ball point pens, replacement office furniture, a Xerox copier contract and toilet paper instead of buying needed nuclear reactor parts!" I even left out the qualifier so that you can get you head spinning that much easier.

Note: We resurfaced the floor because it was coming apart in places and a student broke an ankle. Ohhh the pork, the outrage!

also any comparison to the military needs of the united states to the police force training needs of iraqis is bunk pure and simple. what is good for the united states isnt the same as iraq based on the maturity of our armed forces infrastructure.

The physical fitness needs of an armed force is not going to change. While you have a point as far as operating equipment, a barracks complex is a barracks complex. And your assuming the Iraqis themselves didn't vet the project (among a thousand things you’re assuming). Not that a swimming pool is a particularly capital expenditure anyway. Jesus, I hope they didn't buy anything but plywood boards for them to sleep on, or give them a gym with anything other than jump ropes or they might incur your wrath.

But again, in your haste to jump on the bandwagon you missed the actual point of the article, which might not have been the case if they author had spent a second of his time providing adequate examples. Since the compound is not operational (assuming it was supposed to be by this time, note the author didn't bother qualifying that statment either) eveything on it is a waste of money. Barracks. Water pipes. Security barriers. Toilets. Parking lots. Mess Halls. Everything, including pools. I and other posters correctly identified the larger legitimate outrage glaring at you from the article while you stubbornly refuse to admit a pool of that nature is a perfectly normal part of a training barracks complex.

I thought that any unalocated money the armed forces have that are not used are simply refunded to the taxpayers and since there is no incentive to "save" or "spend wisely" the funds the forces simply spend the full allotement?

Not quite. There is incentive to save, you are just saving for your command instead of big Navy. I submit a budget, broken down by quarter and month and I have to spend that money roughly to that schedule. This keeps commands from skimping all year and ending up with a lot of money at the end of the year, which they don't want you to do because you submitted a budget with requirements so they expect you to meet those requirements.

However, if I manage to save money by say getting a cheaper contract for a service or finding a way to reduce requirements, I am more than welcome to spend that money on something else not originally budgeted for but still a legitimate requirement, like resurfacing a gym floor.

However, if I save for big Navy, at the end of the fiscal year all left over funds will be taken back. On top of that, since obviously I couldn't find anything worthwhile to spend that money on in support of the command, the next year's budget will most likely be reduced (which COs don't like). I ended up with $1.98 left over this past September 30th.

Additionally, if you do find yourself with a emergent requirement not budgeted for but legitimate, you can ask big Navy for more money. This happens a lot when large support commands like SPAWAR make sweeping Navy wide requirements, like upgrade to Word 2007 for example. That would cost me upwards of 100K for procurement alone and probably another 50K every three years after that for licensing. That’s a problem because I budget out for 8 years, so that changes a lot.

In any case I am not big Navy's budget manager, I am my commands budget manager. It is my job to provide as much support possible to my command, big Navy has a thousand accountants/Supply Officers working on their interests. Not to mention I only get the resources I can convince them I require, it they think I need less that was their chance to do so. Though on occasion they will simply take money back. For instance right now, thanks to our wonderful democratic congressmen not doing their job, I and most shore commands are operating at 20% budget.

It is also worth noting that the money I get is not mine to spend entirely as I will, and the same would be the case with Dynocorp. For instance 20K of my budget has to be spent on urinalysis supplies and training, if I can't spend it all on that they take it back (I gave back 8K last year). There are lots of things that work that way, OPTAR (parts) and consumables (everything else) being the most common, but the one most relevant to the OP is habitability money. That would be money specifically designated to improve the living conditions of members, and if you don't spend it all on that they take it back. That never happens, because what CO is going to say he didn’t do all he could to improve the lives of his sailors? Apply to the OP, though again the article is light on details in this regard as well.
 
That make sense in such a large organisation as the Navy. I can understand why theres need to maintain and improve trainning facilities. It just seems rather puzzeling to me that the navy might have forgone a 38k upgrade to floors in order that the marines could have enough for stuff like life saving helmet liners (they finnished rolling them out recently) and basic equipment like watchs for there non-comms.

well some inefficentcy is always prevalant though the brass needs to be on the spot more quickly.
 
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