Psilonemo
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2022
- Messages
- 53
Hello!
Many months ago I received feedback on a similar idea mentioned here. I have since taken the best feedback from it and decided to formally propose the following changes for the PI (Persian Immortal).
Proposal:
My approach to this concept was mostly with historical roleplay and partly with gameplay in mind. I'll start with the historical reasons.
What truly distinguished the P.I. from other run of the mill, professional regimental armies of their time were two things in particular that are both attested to the only surviving historical sources describing them. It was the fact that they were hybrid units capable of archery and melee combat at the same time so they could supplant any field army with what they needed more of, and the fact that they were specifically maintained at an exact number of 10,000 at all times, giving their unit the impression of being "immortal." They were trained to be exemplars of Iranian military doctrine at the time, mastering both melee and ranged weapons so they could perform as a versatile force accompanying the Shah on rapid deployments wherever they were needed. Here is an accurate illustration just for the sake of reference.
The Sassanid Persians would later restore the same unit 10,000 strong, not as infantry units, but as a royal retinue of heavy horse archers, which was named the "Zhayedan" by a leading researcher on this field.
I will admit that their current design does have tactical utility which emphasizes their "immortality." They have a bonus defensive CS abd extra healing which makes them significantly difficult to kill when fortified. However I believe this design makes their utility a little too defensive in nature, tactically speaking, for a civ whose unique ability emphasizes blitz warfare. I believe giving the P.I. the ability to heal every turn even after attacking or moving regardless of the situation better captures a sense of actively "undying replenishment".
Creating a unique promotion which boosts defensive CS slightly and buffs healing slightly only outside friendly territory would help them stand out from just being a slightly stronger spearman that gained the March promotion. It would also be something of a compromise for the more conservative playerbase that wants the Immortals to retain an emphasis on healing. If anything, this change would make them even better at early game barb clearing because they can fight more efficiently without having to fortify every now and then.
I am aware that one cannot simply mod a ranged attack animation that functions flawlessly for a "hybrid unit" that has never been done before on a whim. I just thought if it could be done, it would essentially combining unique aspects of both Civ 5 and Civ 6's Immortals into one, immersive unit that is true to history. Having a ranged attack would also allow the PI to be used more dynamically besides just fortifying when Persia's UA is active.
I also realize that upgrading the PIs into knights is an absurd suggestion considering balance, so I would easily yield this concept to be amended out of the picture. I just thought it would be more immersive if your ancient Immortals directly upgraded into what would represent their sassanid successors but in limited number from upgrades only.
Considering the likelihood that all this will be too difficult to mod and therefore be a cause for outright rejection, I did have some potential amendments in mind.
I hope this wasn't too bothersome a read nor too much to ask for a non-modder. Even if this is going to be rejected, I hope people could at least appreciate where I was coming from with this whole concept.
Thanks.
Many months ago I received feedback on a similar idea mentioned here. I have since taken the best feedback from it and decided to formally propose the following changes for the PI (Persian Immortal).
Proposal:
- The PI's "Faster Healing" promotion should be replaced with "March", and "Armor Plating I" promotion should be replaced with a custom promotion called "Zhayedan" which provides +15% CS when defending and +5 HP healed per turn outside of friendly territory. (Essentially a weaker version of "Survivalism" that nullifies the -10% defensive CS penalty of March.)
- The PI should have access to a ranged attack with 8 CS, and 2 range, giving it the tactical versatility to either attack from afar or engage in melee to take over a tile.
- The PI becomes obsolete with chivalry and upgrades into Knights instead of Pikemen, keeping the custom "Zhaydean" promotion.
My approach to this concept was mostly with historical roleplay and partly with gameplay in mind. I'll start with the historical reasons.
What truly distinguished the P.I. from other run of the mill, professional regimental armies of their time were two things in particular that are both attested to the only surviving historical sources describing them. It was the fact that they were hybrid units capable of archery and melee combat at the same time so they could supplant any field army with what they needed more of, and the fact that they were specifically maintained at an exact number of 10,000 at all times, giving their unit the impression of being "immortal." They were trained to be exemplars of Iranian military doctrine at the time, mastering both melee and ranged weapons so they could perform as a versatile force accompanying the Shah on rapid deployments wherever they were needed. Here is an accurate illustration just for the sake of reference.
The Sassanid Persians would later restore the same unit 10,000 strong, not as infantry units, but as a royal retinue of heavy horse archers, which was named the "Zhayedan" by a leading researcher on this field.
I will admit that their current design does have tactical utility which emphasizes their "immortality." They have a bonus defensive CS abd extra healing which makes them significantly difficult to kill when fortified. However I believe this design makes their utility a little too defensive in nature, tactically speaking, for a civ whose unique ability emphasizes blitz warfare. I believe giving the P.I. the ability to heal every turn even after attacking or moving regardless of the situation better captures a sense of actively "undying replenishment".
Creating a unique promotion which boosts defensive CS slightly and buffs healing slightly only outside friendly territory would help them stand out from just being a slightly stronger spearman that gained the March promotion. It would also be something of a compromise for the more conservative playerbase that wants the Immortals to retain an emphasis on healing. If anything, this change would make them even better at early game barb clearing because they can fight more efficiently without having to fortify every now and then.
I am aware that one cannot simply mod a ranged attack animation that functions flawlessly for a "hybrid unit" that has never been done before on a whim. I just thought if it could be done, it would essentially combining unique aspects of both Civ 5 and Civ 6's Immortals into one, immersive unit that is true to history. Having a ranged attack would also allow the PI to be used more dynamically besides just fortifying when Persia's UA is active.
I also realize that upgrading the PIs into knights is an absurd suggestion considering balance, so I would easily yield this concept to be amended out of the picture. I just thought it would be more immersive if your ancient Immortals directly upgraded into what would represent their sassanid successors but in limited number from upgrades only.
Considering the likelihood that all this will be too difficult to mod and therefore be a cause for outright rejection, I did have some potential amendments in mind.
- Simply replace either "Faster Healing" or "Armor Plating I" with "March", and reject everything else.
- Keep the custom promotion, but instead of "Zhayedan", rename it into "Undying", and make it exclusive to just the PI. Scrap the idea of making them upgrade into knights or maintain that promotion when upgrading.
- Just make the PI a very defensive replacement of the Composite Bowman that has "Undying" and high CS so melee units can't just beat them.
- Same as above, but allow the PI to then upgrade into Heavy Skirmishers with "Undying".
I hope this wasn't too bothersome a read nor too much to ask for a non-modder. Even if this is going to be rejected, I hope people could at least appreciate where I was coming from with this whole concept.
Thanks.
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